On Mon, 2015-01-05 at 11:06 -0500, Joe Subich, W4TV spewed forth with: > What you find as an "unused frequency" in the JT sub-band is *not* > necessarily unused - and you know it. What may appears to you to be > unused is someone listening to the 48 second transmission from another > station you can not hear.
So because there MIGHT be someone on a frequency then no one should use it, ever! Bzzzzt! Wrong again Joe! Your logic is not sound-- and you know it. If we all followed that logic then the bands would not have anyone on them, we would all be respecting the silence and not transmitting because someone we don't hear might be on. Your model fails the scale test. To expect the worldwide Amateur Radio community, to clear out space on every band, for the few hundred JT users, on the off chance someone might be transmitting, is simply insane and selfish. A better solution might be for people to try and avoid those areas, (which for the most part is happening already), or actually set some areas aside in a meaningful, thoughtful, way, for ALL, low signal level modes (read that as not just JT modes, but ALL low signal level modes), to use! There is already a JT9 area, AND a JT65 area, they should be mixed, you know it, and the users know it! There is ZERO reason for the separation, other than a way to expand a gentleman’s agreement beyond what is already there. The modes take so little space to use, set aside 10 KHZ for ALL low power modes, not just JT modes! I would be all for that! Do it via rules, and give it some teeth, but not just for JT modes! > Unfortunately, the RTTY Contesters have been trained to believe any > frequency that has not been used in the last 100 ms is "unused" and > they are free to "press F1". Untrue Joe, and a very prejudicial statement to be making! Please DO NOT judge all RTTYers by a few, and please do not put all contest flaws on the RTTYers heads. > Although very little JT65 is done below .076, what does happen there > is always done with listen first - the waterfall shows any activity. What if there is a QRSS mode QSO happening, will the JTer see it, if he does, will he wait the three days it takes to send a letter of code to be sure he is not transmitting on top of the QRSS signal, I think not! Your model fails the scale test again! Same logic applies! Stay in your JT65 sub band, there might be a low level contact happening YOU can't see... You don't get it both ways, no one can encroach on the JT bands, because they can't tell if a QSO is in progress, but the JTers don't have to even care because they are special... Sorry Joe, you are just wrong here! BTW, MixW, and FLDigi, the two major pieces of software also show JT activity, almost as well as the JT software does if one has then set correctly and one looks, so the JTers don't have "special" eyes that RTTYers and other contesters don't have. > However, RTTY contesters do not looking at the frequency over a two > minute period to make sure there is no JT65 or JT9 activity there ... > they only care about "their 400 Hz slice for the last two seconds at > most. That applies to ALL contesters, not just RTTYers! I see CW in the JT bands during some contests! Not to justify that behavior, ut you are talking about contesters, not RTTYers here... It also applies to the "out of band" JTers, they better wait three days to be sure there is not a QRSS contact in place... > RTTY contest participants need to be taught about the characteristics > of other data signals. They need to avoid those narrow centers of > activity where other digital modes concentrate rather than simply hit > F1 on any frequency that shows no activity in the last second. Contest > sponsors need to educate their entrants - including score reductions, > if necessary, to get the point across. Wrong again! That should apply to ALL Amateur Operators, not just contesters, ALL of us could use a refresher on this, not just RTTYers, or SSTVers, or JTers. > > Pretty soon you have 3 or 4 pencils taking up the entire drawer with > > empty boxes. > > The JT65/JT9 frequencies *were not empty* of JT65/JT9 activity this > past weekend. If you have any doubt, research the spots activity for > those modes on HAMSPOTS. Centers of activity concentrate specific > modes in specific areas - they do not promote inefficient spectrum > use unless you consider any frequency that is not used 100% of the > time to be "inefficient spectrum use." I run JT all the time Joe, and we both know that 50% of the time, the JT frequency’s are not even close 50% of full utilization. You know it, and I know it, and every JTer knows it. Next time you think the JT63 band is full switch to JT9 sub band, it's ALWAYS empty. Better yet, switch to JT9 mode! My God man, you can put a billion JT9 signals in a KHz... We both know the JT9 band is 90% empty, 90% of the time! I have a neighbor with a KW, that he fires up on RTTY now and then 10 KHz from me while on JT mode, and it does not bother my JT one bit. I bought my K3 for that very reason, hams close in... You JT guys go nuts at each other over power levels all the time... Lets see, JT people fight with RTTYers, JT people fight with CW ops, JT people fight with each other... And always about "their" sub band. I am sensing a pattern here Joe! Honestly what does it take to get a segment set aside by the FCC for low level signaling? Has anyone even looked at this, and if so what steps were taken... Try and get a 10 KHz section cut out for Low Level signals, I'd support that in a moment! Until then expect incursions into what the users are trying to make a private band... Work with people Joe, stop telling them that as a class they suck. Not all contesters are fools and bad people, and for the most part they are as careful as possible in that environment. Maybe all contesting should be banned? I don't think that will happen-- ever! And before you get wound up about the "that environment" comment I just made, get used to it, contesting is not going away, nor are contesters. Your ONLY option here is to work with people, not tell them how rotten they are. -- Thanks and 73's, For equipment, and software setups and reviews see: www.nk7z.net for MixW support see; http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info for Dopplergram information see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info for MM-SSTV see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[email protected] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [email protected]
