Wow, so much for a non-kool aid question...You comments give up my friend!
I have a K3, KX3 and TS-590. It's well documented that the nr in the K3 is poor
and leave a lot to be desired. Also, in an effort to fix it by making it more
adjustable, Elecraft overcomplicated its implementation. I love Elecraft
products, but also love the simplicity and effectiveness of nr implementation
in the TS-590 (in my opinion even better than the one in KX3). Regarding
warranty and service, I totally agree Elecraft is hand down #1 in this area.
However, Kenwood just fixed the ALC issue in my TS-590 free of charge after 4
years. The question is, can I send my 3 yrs old (early production) KX3 to
Elecraft to get all the latest corrections/improvements (e.g. tuning noise)
free of charge. After all, I paid about the same amount of money that someone
is paying today for a better product. ;) I'm a big fan of Elecraft, but resist
drinking the Kool aid in order to encourage competition.
Robert-KP4Y
On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 12:00 PM, "ae...@carolinaheli.com"
<ae...@carolinaheli.com> wrote:
I'll make a few comments with information you likely already know and drop
the thread.
1. audio hiss is common with the largest contributor being particles
traversing the substrate layers of semi-conductors (you get it in tubes as
well, just not as much). The design keys being S/N ratio, dynamic range, and
gain. Any solution to remove hiss without consideration to S/N ratio and
gain results in loss of signal level. Hard to complain about weak signal
work if the system is degraded by mods/adjustments.
2. By default the K3S receive audio isn't optimal for everyone's ears and
dynamic range. That's likely why there's an audio equalizer for both receive
and transmit audio. If you've not adjusted that to optimize the audio to
your tastes then you're missing out.
I have different hearing issues in each ear. My wish is to be able to adjust
left /right audio independently with both a single receiver and with the sub
installed. I currently run with AFX on full delay. I usually hear signals on
my right ear not my left unless I adjust the equalizer. My right ear being
more sensitive than my left.
Show me an audio circuit with no hiss and I'll show you missing signal
level. For most audio applications this doesn't matter because there's ample
signal. When working weak signal it's all about balance and working the
edges. If you operate with all knobs cranked to the right I'd humbly and
respectfully suggest that you review your operating procedures regardless of
the radio you use.
Kenwood makes a good radio, however, I've NEVER had good luck with service
from them or Yaesu. Based on my experiences in forums, reflector, and
talking with other hams; Elecraft is rabidly good about support.
Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.
-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of jim
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 11:23 AM
To: ae...@carolinaheli.com; 'Fred Townsend'; 'Robert Sands';
elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed
Jer,
Perceived audio is just that. Perception. And to the individual, it is
*everything*.
Op skill does come into play, no doubt.
Types of noise come into play, no doubt.
The fact there are only two settings on the Kenwood does limit it's ability
to "work" under different noise condx.
The K3 is an excellent radio. I bought one after using a friends at
Sweepstakes CW two years ago. The only time I looked back was when I had to
hook up the Kenwood TS-480 and my perception is the NR was superior.
BTW, I sent the K3 back because of hiss in the audio with the audio gain
fully CCW. Elecraft bent over backwards to find the issue, and advised they
compared to current production rigs, using an audio spectrum analyzer. I
also sent the headphones to them in the event the complex impedance of them
would induce this hiss. Yes, Elecraft service is second to none.
The radio still has hiss, so I put a resistive pad inline and the hiss is
gone and ride the audio at 12 noon.
Jim
W6AIM
P.S. I do not subscribe to $75.00 per foot speaker cable ;>)
.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Moore [mailto:je...@carolinaheli.com] On Behalf Of
ae...@carolinaheli.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 5:20 AM
To: 'jim'; 'Fred Townsend'; 'Robert Sands'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed
Jim,
Here's a non-KookAid question for you.
Just like in school..
Show your work.
You say that radio <insert make/model/version here> has better <insert
feature here> than the K3/K3S with latest hardware/firmware.
Please provide the data upon which you base this.
What you hear /think you hear is not valid data because operator skill comes
into play.
I'm no expert but have played with the K3S long enough to know the power of
it's NR is in finding the balance of settings to pull the desired signal out
of the noise.
Any system that only has a button for NR and lacks granular control of the
parameters can't possibly pull signals out under all circumstances when
compared to a system that allows for granular control.
Opinions aside.. please provide the data upon which your claims are based.
Claims without data are just opinion based on several factors; many of which
are out of the operators control and change over time.
No KoolAid, just facts. I don't know that the K3S is better. On paper a
receiver system is dealing with component noise, board noise, power noise,
dynamic range, overhead, sensitivity, gain..etc..
On my K3S when digging out signals I'm playing with RF gain, Roofing
filters, IF DSP Filtering, AGC Slope, AGC Threshold, AGC Time, and finally
NR DSP algorithm (of which the K3S has LOTS).
I have 2 main NR settings: One when I expect to have strong local signals
(e.g... contests) and one for normal use. When chasing weak signal DX I'll
play with settings to see what I can do.
You're lucky to have never had to send your Kenwood radio in for repair. You
typically end up sending it to a third party repair shop with the hopes they
know what they are doing and do more good than harm.
Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.
-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of jim
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2015 9:14 PM
To: 'Fred Townsend'; 'Robert Sands'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed
Kenwood (even the "cheap" TS-480) has superior NR. Even with just two
different, fixed, settings.
Jim
W6AIM
<cut>
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