You almost exactly verified the conclusions for you I previously
listed. You said they didn't but then without realizing it you
literally reiterated them ... just with more words to disguise them.
I.e., ham radio already covers all the bases that any prospective ham
might be interested in, people that aren't interested in what ham radio
might offer can't be persuaded that it does, and the only way to retain
folks that profess an interest is to nurture them.
Nothing different there.
I'm sure most list subscribers are bored to tears by this discussion by
now, but I should point out that Wayne (or Eric, I don't remember which
for certain) was the one who started the topic ... and nobody has
actually come up with any suggestions that make a difference or are any
different than what has already been tried without significant success
in the past. Nobody has ideas for actual change that would have a
significant impact, nor any desire to implement them.
I'm just tilting at windmills here.
Dave AB7E
On 9/3/2025 5:39 PM, Rick NK7I wrote:
No those are not my conclusions. And it’s because I CHOOSE to use a
positive viewpoint. I’m not sucking on unripe grapes, wailing and
gnashing teeth.
To your questions:
1). There is not much to add, since ham radio tends to cover most
sciences; physics, atmospherics, solar, geography and social studies
(what we called it last century) and languages (and these days, add
environmental awareness and ecology). Focus on specific topics
changes over the years, some growth, some decline; but with a broader
understanding over time. All inclusive means ALL inclusive; ham radio
is already there at some level.
2). Those who are not interested in garnering new information; new
friends (some I’ve known for decades and NEVER met elsewhere but
radio); not interested in learning, growing and becoming more; won’t.
You can’t reach those who won’t be reachable. But you TRY.
The rest are potential hams. Find out what motivates them (talk WITH
them, not to) and show them that ham radio can be part of that topic
and how. INSPIRE them! Make it exciting and fun.
3). People tend to gather in groups, it is their nature (there are
exceptions) because they want to be part of something and seek
commonality. That gives us all social activities, like clubs.
If a club does not seek AND MENTOR prospective new hams; continually
then they are a club that is dying. That mentoring should never end
(I still have some from 50 years ago and sometimes I mentor them right
back; because our rabbit trails are different but intertwine, all
still ham radio).
Invitations to meetings and newsletters offered to all. (The local
club here, doesn’t do any of that; wasn’t interested in learning; so I
left. The DAY I left, my email access was pulled, because I was no
longer a member. How welcoming/inviting is that? It’s no wonder
they’re a dying club.)
That is most often called, a relationship. One of the core tenets of
ham radio; to promote good will, which infers a relationship; parties
exchanging interests and viewpoints; pulling together, not pushing (or
scaring) away.
As people move (and my old groups have scattered across the
continent); ham radio (and sometimes a cell phone) being one of the
common threads of the relationship; helps to keep in contact, able to
share, mentor and compare what the current interest (rabbit trail) is.
Some of those relationships span decades (some 5 decades, so far).
In that simple maintenance and sharing, one could find an interest
they never saw or thought of; still via ham radio.
Rabbit trails: Over the years mine have included repeater operations
(because I first heard hams chatting on 2M, which made me want to be a
part of it); remote linking, then HF (which showed me just how wide
the world is), then DXing on one branch, while another was packet
radio, which lead to networking (AX.25 appeared), which got me going
eventually into IRLP, DMR as well; and even more topics.
When I took up traveling, ham radio was with me the entire time,
because I would seek places that no cell phone would tread (like much
of Western Canada, into YT, NWT and the greater portion of Alaska;
twice). I did not want to be on a roadside broken down or with a
medical emergency in those places, so ham radio (besides allowing
folks at home to know where I was) was the lifeline.
Ham radio (relationships) was the trigger to spark an interest in
computers, which later helped in my career and schooling. Which got
me interested in different data formats (all of which, went on the air).
There are enough aspects (rabbit trails) that even a schizophrenic
with multiple personalities could not ever find them all. Ham radio
is already there.
Back to the original point: Being out in _public_ demonstrating what
is possible (Field Day, Charity events, fires and other emergency
events come to mind); being AVAILABLE if someone has a question (and
reaching out to those who look curious) will draw some folks in. Make
SURE that you connect the event over social media and the news media
when something significant happens. Just don’t geek out!
Then once they show interest, MENTOR them (GENTLY at first, they’re
tender), through the testing process (not memorized answers, but WHY
the answer is correct, give them a foundation). As you do that, you
learn about that person, what makes them tick, then you show them that
ham radio is already there. They will learn about you as well and
then it is a friendship (who CAN’T use another friend?).
Then they will USE that license to explore that interest. Go with
them as much as you can.
Or you can congratulate them for passing and walk away; killing any
chance of a new friendship and mentorship. In weeks or months,
they’ll have moved on to another hobby. And some will anyway,
thinking that the time invested, was a waste. Attrition.
Friendships are NOT passive, they take care and feeding over time.
They are ACTIVE (and the great ones, can pick up right where they
left off, months or years later).
Your call, because each one of us has to make the same choice; which
determines the growth or failure of the hobby.
Participate publicly (be available) to share and expand the hobby or
sit in the shack and whine on the 75M old folks net about your
ailments and never leave the shack.
EACH of us, has to make the same choice (every day).
73,
Rick nk7i
On Sep 3, 2025, at 4:02 PM, David Gilbert <ab7e...@gmail.com> wrote:
So your conclusions are:
1. There isn't any opportunity to change the hobby ... it already
covers everything that you think fits under the appropriate umbrella
of "radio".
2. Non-hams are either going to decide they are interested or they
aren't, and the great majority won't be. What they see is what they get.
3. The only way to grow activity is to convince the folks who
initially cared enough to get licensed that they should stay active.
Did I get that right? I'm not seeing the upside in that perspective.
Dave AB7E
On 9/3/2025 1:46 PM, Rick NK7I wrote:
Within.
73,
Rick nk7i
On Sep 3, 2025, at 12:54 PM, David Gilbert via Elecraft
<elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:
Two questions and a comment:
1. "Don't ignore the shut in or (very) tiny budget crowds ... etc"
Which of those things you mention aren't more easily possible via
voice, texting, or forum participation on their cellphones?
How much does a cell phone cost, compared to a (used) HT? Cell
fails here at least annually (the fiber line gets cut, no feed).
How many times can you talk with a group at the same moment, on a
cell phone? These days, you can message on either HT or cell.
2. "I've tried to generate interest ... etc" Did you ever
actually ask anyone what changes/additions would make ham radio
more interesting to them?
Of course. Other than checking into the weekly net on the local
repeater, they knew that they knew nothing and didn’t care to learn
(even basic simple antennas that would improve their stations to get
into the repeater). It took MONTHS of effort, all to zero avail. I
also raised simple dipoles and help sets up stations; which simply
got ignored when the shine wore off.
3. NOBODY ever wants to discuss what might be added to ham radio
to make it more appealing to outsiders. Not a single suggestion
from anybody here has popped up in this lengthy thread ... which
likely hardly anyone even wants to follow anymore. The few
comments that have been posted mostly say that everything is just
fine the way it is.
It is NOT fine, the numbers don’t tell the entire story since most
licensees, don’t operate or stop after a few months or years.
Mostly because there is no follow through after the test;
individuals and clubs just walk away (HUGE mistake). Without
watering, the root dies.
Followthrough (I am a VE, I offer myself there) is critical.
I tell them that I started out with borrowed receivers and a 5th
hand transmitter on HF, with mostly useless wire antennas (I was
ignorant too) then worked my way up. It does NOT have to cost the
tens of thousands of my present station; I kept interest and built
it up over decades. Ease THAT fear ASAP with a noob; money is TIGHT
for most.
Adding features? What does NOT appear under the umbrella of ham
radio? Music, games and broadcast; EVERY other means of
communication are already being used, in ham radio.
While it CAN be as mostly technical as the noob can manage (and
rabbit holes to fall into); there are plenty of ‘appliance
operators’ too (just listen to the bands, to spend 20 minutes and a
LOT of words, to say nothing; then it’s the other folks turns). Ask
them about technical details of their station; brand and model is
about all they know (can we say ‘stagnation’?).
Growth can occur, IF they find the right niche and want to keep
learning (THAT is an ugly word to some when simplistic ignorance is
so appealing).
The only two topics to not discuss (by agreement, not law):
Politics and religion (both can be easily devisive in moments; not
helpful in building new bonds of friendship). That leaves BROAD
range of topics, technical or not; dog raising, baking or
multi-element arrays.
And THAT means, being an Elmer (mentor) to the noob and meeting them
at their level while sharing the excitement of where you are in
radio. I’ve turned no one away and try to meet their level of
understanding. Give them the answers they seek, with a little more
to spark interest; let them into what you’re doing too.
It is about relationships, nothing more.
That mirror looks good here.
We don't have to look far to find the source of the problem. A
mirror would do the job.
Dave AB7E
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