Well, without calling anything names ... > > Placing a USB port in the K3 would simply move the USB UART > > currently found in the USB to serial converter onto the KIO3 > board. > > Correct, and would thus avoid the un-necessary and > superfluous packaging > and connector costs of the USB/RS232 dongle.
And would not resolve the driver compatibility issues. There are no drivers to be concerned with when using an 8250 compatible UART in DOS, 16 bit Windows, 32 bit Windows, 64 bit windows, OS-X or any flavor of *NIX. > > If Elecraft were to use the prolific chipset currently > > in the KUSB, > > If my mother were a bus , I would have wheels. That's intelligent! The whole point is that USB is far from "universal." > > USB *** HAS NO ADVANTAGE *** over standard RS-232 ports and it > > *** NEVER WILL ***. > > Well, how about > 1. speed Let's see ... 8250 compatible serial ports are capable of data rates to 230K bps. That's far faster than the K3 processor is capable of handling. > 2. flexibillity what flexibility? We're talking about a point to point channel controlling a single device. > 3. fanout Who cares? Again, this is a point to point channel controlling a single device. Fanout requires hubs and divides the bus bandwidth. > 4. less prone to abuse of the control lines , violations of > the standard > , e.g. using them to send Morse, for shame. ... and you cited "flexibility" as an advantage for USB? What is wrong with using RTS (ready to send!) for PTT or DTR for CW? > > Going to USB requires a substantial added > > investment by the manufacturer and a major ongoing support cost. > > > True, depending on what you mean by substantial and major. > But avoids us customers being forced to buy thousands of > those stupid and crash-prone dongles. I'd far rather spend $20 on a quality USB to serial adapter if I did not already have serial ports than spend an extra $200 for the USB port, hub, software costs, support costs, etc. to have additional (unnecessary) hardware grafted onto the radio. > Being a customer not a vendor, I'm for that tradeoff. You want to pay MORE for the radio that offers no additional performance, has greater opportunity for failure, and features than most owners will never use? You're not like any customer I've ever seen! > > In addition to the software support cost, USB is a multiplexed > > (shared) > correct > > system level bus. > > > with respect, it is a low-speed peripheral level bus. Still is it a much higher data rate because of the encapsulation and multiplexing. Combined with the lower signal levels (0-5V or 0-3.3V), the higher bit rate make USB more susceptible to transmitted RF (common mode and near field coupling) and more likely to cause radiated and conducted interference to the receiver (broken shields, on board coupling, etc.). Careful analysis of the facts can catalog more than a dozen reasons not to replace the standard RS-232 serial port with embedded USB and only one reason to do so (it's "cool"). There are certainly no performance advantages to USB in a single channel, low speed, short range point-to-point application 73, ... Joe, W4TV > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Manning [mailto:eric.mann...@engr.uvic.ca] > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 2:42 PM > To: Joe Subich, W4TV; elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] USB to serial angst > > > > > The conservative spirit is alive and well. USB seen as a > dangerous and > radical innovation, forsooth. > > On 3/13/2010 5:10 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: > > > > That is completely uninformed and demonstrates a dangerous lack of > > knowledge about the way USB operates. > > > Aw, shucks. > > Placing a USB port in the K3 would simply move the USB UART > currently > > found in the USB to serial converter onto the KIO3 board. > Correct, and would thus avoid the un-necessary and > superfluous packaging > and connector costs of the USB/RS232 dongle. > > If Elecraft were to use the prolific chipset currently > > in the KUSB, > If my mother were a bus , I would have wheels. > > they would also be stuck with the Prolific drivers > > that are notoriously problematic with VB 6 software and > would render > > the K3 unusable with several popular software packages. > > > > USB *** HAS NO ADVANTAGE *** over standard RS-232 ports and it > > *** NEVER WILL ***. > Well, how about > 1. speed > 2. flexibillity > 3. fanout > 4. less prone to abuse of the control lines , violations of > the standard > , e.g. using them to send Morse, for shame. > Other than that, and vendor support as it is current practice not an > archaic legacy artifact, I can't think of any. > > Going to USB requires a substantial added > > investment by the manufacturer and a major ongoing support cost. > > > True, depending on what you mean by substantial and major. > But avoids us customers being forced to buy thousands of > those stupid > and crash-prone dongles. > Being a customer not a vendor, I'm for that tradeoff. > > In addition to the software support cost, USB is a multiplexed > > (shared) > correct > > system level bus. > > > with respect, it is a low-speed peripheral level bus. > > > > > Because of the system architecture > > data rates on the bus are > [ may be, depending on the application] > > much higher than the serial equivalent > > through put. That makes USB much more susceptible to both radiated > > and conducted noise problems. Computer motherboards (and > > laptop/netbooks) that fail to properly ground the USB shield to the > > board's ground plane are almost guaranteed to become wideband noise > > generators (something that is very rare with the 8250 compatible > > UART). > > > > Very true, but with respect, off topic. The assertion ignores the > awkward fact that all computers built in this century have > USB, and not > the ancient RS 232... > We are stuck with that fact. > And, the conversation was about USB on the K3, not on the computer... > > 73, > > > > ... Joe, W4TV > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > >> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of eric manning > >> Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 2:08 PM > >> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] USB to serial angst > >> > >> > >> All in favour of a USB port on the K3? > >> > >> Then we could forget about un-necessary, expensive , flaky and > >> crash-prone USB to serial adapters. THe serial port with > its RS-232 > >> interface is obsolete. It dates back to > >> the 70's if not earlier and was superseded by USB. > >> > >> eric > >> > >> VA7DZ > >> > >> S/N 3640 > >> > >> -- > >> This message has been scanned for viruses and > >> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > >> believed to be clean. > >> > >> ______________________________________________________________ > >> Elecraft mailing list > >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >> > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >> > > > > > > > -- > Eric G Manning,P.Eng., FIEEE, FEIC > Prof Emeritus of CS& ECE > Univ of Victoria > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
