This method is also quite hand countable (unlike many other Condorcet methods). That was certainly an important feature in those days :-). It has some randomness in the results (when no Condorcet winner exists).

Here's another one. Elect the candidate that wins all others in pairwise comparisons. If there is no such candidate, elect the one that needs least number of additional votes to win all others. (This is of course the famous minmax(margins) that I have promoted quite often.)

Juho


On Nov 10, 2009, at 12:57 PM, Jobst Heitzig wrote:

Dear Matthew,

you wrote:
Suite of complicated systems that strive to reach "Condorcet" ideals.

  1. No regular bloke would ever trust 'em because you can't explain
     how they work in one or two sentences.

Well, here's a very simple "Condorcet" system which can easily be
explained in two sentences:

1. Let voters vote on candidate pairs, successively replacing the loser
with a different candidate, in a random order of candidates.
2. As soon as all candidates have been included, the winner of the last
pair is declared the overall winner.

This system is arguably the earliest example of a "Condorcet" system. It was devised by Ramon Llull in the 13th century and was successfully used for elections in monastaries. It is easily understood by the common man
since it resembles a procedure frequently used in child play.

Yours, Jobst


Matthew Welland schrieb:
Thanks all for the discussion and pointers. I still can't concretely
conclude anything yet but here are some rambling and random thoughts
based on what was said and my prior experiences.

Plurality

  1. Leads to two lowest common denominator parties which are not
accountable to the voters. This conclusion supported by real world
     observation.
  2. Feels right to the non-critical mind, "one man, one vote"
  3. Very fast at the polls

Approval

1. Encourages participation of minor parties and thus should keep the
     big guys paying attention to a wider base.
2. Almost zero marginal implementation cost. Hanging chads count just
     fine :)
  3. Understandable by anyone but feels wrong at first "not fair, you
     get more than one vote".
  4. Apparently has a terrible flaw but no one seems to be able to
articulate it in layman terms. No real world experience available
     to illustrate the problem. Here is where I need to learn more.
     Data provided to date is unconvincing to me.
  5. Does not meet the desire of some to be able to differentiate
     between "I like", "I like a lot" etc. (note: this seems like
perfectionism to me. Large numbers of voters and opinions all over
     the bell curve should make individual expression at the greater
     level of granularity irrelevant.)
6. Very fast at the polls. Pick yer favorites and head home for beer
     and telly.

Range

  1. Can break the vicious cycle of plurality
  2. Not voting for someone at all can have a strong influence on
     election outcome. This is very non-intuitive and would take some
     getting used to.
  3. Allows for nuanced voting.
  4. Pain in the ass at the polls (relatively speaking). You can't
safely disregard the candidates you don't care about so you *have*
     to assign everyone a ranking, possibly addressable by defaulting
     to zero for all candidates? This is considered a feature and I
     agree it has merit. But in reality it is a deal breaker for joe
     six pack and co. (and for lazy sobs like me).

IRV

  1. Demonstrably broken. 'nuff said.

Suite of complicated systems that strive to reach "Condorcet" ideals.

  1. No regular bloke would ever trust 'em because you can't explain
     how they work in one or two sentences.
  2. Technically superior to other systems.
3. Not clear what problem with approval they would solve. Unless you are a perfectionist and insist that individuals express nuances of
     opinion...

Some time ago I put together a site (primitive and unfinished[i]) to
promote approval voting and in the process I spent a lot of time trying
different systems on the web and repeatedly testing my own site. I
noticed some interesting things from all that playing around.

  1. It was very uncomfortable to go back to plurality after trying
     other systems. It "feels" unfair and broken.
  2. It was very tedious voting in any of the ranking systems.
  3. Approval felt boring but good.

I have checked in on this list now and then and I admit I don't have the
time or skills to follow all the arguments but it strikes me that
approval voting is good enough to break the deadlock, at least in US
politics and that it doesn't have any major flaws. The very
understandable desire to be able to articulate in a finer grained way in your vote is perfectionism. With millions of voters, for every person on the fence about a particular candidate there will be some to either side
who will essentially make or break the vote. If you are on the fence,
approve or disapprove, it won't matter.

So, to re-frame my question. What is the fatal flaw with approval? I'm
not interested in subtle flaws that result in imperfect results. I'm
interested in flaws that result in big problems such as those we see
with plurality and IRV.


[i] www.approvalvote.org



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