Dan, what I asked was for you to explain the flaw in your arguments that I found. Jaap stated it pretty clearly for me:
How is the revenue model just a webdesign decision? And additionally: Why aren't the developers, who are just as important to this project, not having the same say in the decision as you. On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 3:41 PM, Daniel Foré <[email protected]> wrote: > Sorry I must have misunderstood the question. Can you rephrase it? > > > On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Scott Ringwelski <[email protected]>wrote: > >> That did not answer my question at all. >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Daniel Foré <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> And also has also been said before, absolutely nothing whatsoever is >>> changing about our monetary model. We're still giving away elementary and >>> we're still providing a way for people to make donations. >>> >>> Today you can download Jupiter for free from the homepage. Today, you >>> can donate to support elementary from the homepage. >>> >>> For the next design, you can download Luna for free from the homepage. >>> And you can also donate to support elementary from the homepage. >>> >>> Nothing has changed from a logistic perspective. The only thing that has >>> changed is the design of the homepage. That is all. >>> >>> We're not changing to a pay-only model. And we don't have significant >>> enough funds to even discuss how to divide them up at all. >>> >>> If did have significant funds, this is absolutely something we'd bring >>> up to the mailing list as we would want as much input as possible on >>> figuring out how to decide who gets hired first. >>> >>> But the design of the homepage is not something everyone needs to *vote* >>> on before we can implement it. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Scott Ringwelski <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> Putting the democratic issue aside for a moment, please explain this: >>>> >>>> 1. You have said numerous times how you would love to be able to pay >>>> your developers. >>>> 2. You just mentioned that it's best to have the people most involved >>>> in the topic make the call. >>>> 3. From this, we can clearly see that developers absolutely should be a >>>> key part of the process of deciding how elementary will handle funding, >>>> donations, etc. Yet, you somehow think that "this is a web design issue and >>>> not something that needs to be run through you first for approval"? Now >>>> that... that is absurd. >>>> >>>> Unless you plan to only pay yourself, this is absolutely something that >>>> needs to be run through everybody. In fact, if there was one decision that >>>> the whole elementary team should be involved in, it is this one. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 2:51 PM, Daniel Foré <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yes I am. I really think direct-democracy is just a bad idea. >>>>> Historically, we've made good decisions by having the people most involved >>>>> in the topic make the call. >>>>> >>>>> When we're talking about a decision around our developer story, It's >>>>> best to consult with our developers. >>>>> >>>>> When we're talking about a decisions around our design story, it's >>>>> best to consult with our designers. >>>>> >>>>> With our Web story, our web team. >>>>> >>>>> Our translations, our (admittedly new) translation team. >>>>> >>>>> Requiring that everyone have a say in everything is not only going to >>>>> lead to un-informed decisions, but it's going to slow our process way >>>>> down. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Scott Ringwelski <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dan, are you asking why elementary should follow a democratic, >>>>>> whole-team decision making process rather than a more centralized >>>>>> decision >>>>>> making process? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Daniel Foré >>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> As it turns out, we have families and lives and jobs and >>>>>>> responsibilities outside of elementary. That means that we're not always >>>>>>> able to meet every week and discuss every issue. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In my personal opinion, this is a web design issue and not something >>>>>>> that needs to be run through you first for approval. But I'd be >>>>>>> interested >>>>>>> to find out from other people why they think we need to directly >>>>>>> democratize our web design or any design for that matter. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you're upset because you can't get your demands met on a certain >>>>>>> time schedule I'm afraid there's nothing I can do for you. You may not >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> aware, but this week celebrates our independence in the US. So there's a >>>>>>> lot of family flooding in and I'm super busy juggling my very extended >>>>>>> family. I can guarantee I won't be able to make the meeting again this >>>>>>> Saturday because it's also my mother's birthday. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wish you luck in your next endeavor and hope you don't harbor any >>>>>>> ill will towards elementary. You're always welcome back at any time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 7:05 AM, Сергей Давыдов >>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Okay, it's been a week. In addition, a Council meeting should have >>>>>>>> taken place three days ago. This seems to be quite enough time to >>>>>>>> settle on something and write a reply. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To speed up the discussion, I stop pretending that everything is all >>>>>>>> right and cease any work on elementary till I receive an answer to >>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>> question. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Daniel Foré >>>>>>> >>>>>>> elementaryos.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community >>>>>>> Post to : [email protected] >>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community >>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Best Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Daniel Foré >>>>> >>>>> elementaryos.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best Regards, >>> >>> Daniel Foré >>> >>> elementaryos.org >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Best Regards, > > Daniel Foré > > elementaryos.org > >
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