Regarding the issue how well the CSA NRTL mark is acceptable in the U.S. and how well the cUL mark is acceptable in Canada;-- this is where it really pays to know and understand your customer.
CSA for many many years now has a very heavy advertising campaign in Canada that only products that are CSA Certified are "safe to use" by the consumer. I seriously doubt that today they also include the cUL mark in the same ad! Thus, the conscientious Canadian consumer would probably not recognize the cUL Listing mark. On the other hand, in my previous job we were shipping equipment to Bell Canada and other big enterprise customers with the cUL mark with absolutely no problem. I have also seen UL acceptance of the CSA mark with no problem. My gut feel is that UL would accept the CSA mark before they would accept another NRTL mark, but I have no proof of this statement. As far as the U.S. consumer is concerned, my gut feel (and also with no proof) is that 97% of them could care less what markings are on the equipment they buy. Several of my peers at work ever so often drop buy and announce to me proudly that they purchased something that had the UL/CSA/CE or whatever appropriate markings on the product. The reason that they are proud is because the recognized something I was telling them about previously. And how often does this happen?????? Know and find out what your costumer wants and expects. taniagr...@msn.com ----- Original Message ----- From: geor...@lexmark.com Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 11:41 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amund, I believe some additional clarification is warranted. UL and CSA are private agencies and do not determine what is acceptable to market goods (ITE) in their respective countries. This is determined by government bodies. The U.S. OSHA has approved multiple Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories to (NRTLs) to perform testing to the UL standards for ITE. These include UL and CSA. See: http://www.osha-slc.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/index.html The Standards Council of Canada has approved multiple "Certification Bodies" to perform testing to the CSA standards for ITE. These include UL and CSA. See http://www.scc.ca/certific/colist_e.html Neither UL nor CSA is obliged to recognize or "accept" testing performed by the other agency, although their respective governments do so. Canada requires either CSA, c-UL, or marks of the other listed certification bodies. U.S. requires UL, CSA/NRTL, or marks of the other listed NRTLs. So, you can use either agency to get a mark acceptable in both countries. However, here is the "down" side of each: CSA/NRTL--Not as well known in the U.S. by large corporate customers. Requires some "selling" to convince that it is equal to UL. c-UL--OK for both country consumer/business markets, but Canadian government tends to give precidence to CSA marked ITE when bidding for its own use. George Alspaugh Lexmark International Inc. "Ralph Cameron" <ralphc%igs....@interlock.lexmark.com> on 09/10/2001 09:33:00 AM Please respond to "Ralph Cameron" <ralphc%igs....@interlock.lexmark.com> To: "Horst Haug" <innova.ps%t-online...@interlock.lexmark.com>, "Peter Merguerian" <pmerguerian%itl.co...@interlock.lexmark.com>, amund%westin....@interlock.lexmark.com, emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee....@interlock.lexmark.com cc: (bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Re: UL vs CSA (IT product) CSA accepts approval by ULC. The C is indicative of Canadian UL. UL is normally not accpetable by itself in Canada Ralph Cameron EMC Consulting and Suppresion of Consumer Electronics (after sale) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horst Haug" <innova...@t-online.de> To: "Peter Merguerian" <pmerguer...@itl.co.il>; <am...@westin.org>; <emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 5:24 AM Subject: AW: UL vs CSA (IT product) > > Amund, > > UL accept components approved by CSA and CSA accepts components approved > by UL. A CSA approved Power Supply within an end product with UL approval > is no problem any more (that is my experience). > The UL PAG "practical application guide" about is 1.5.002. I send it to > you in a separate EMAIL. > > With best regards > Horst Haug > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]Im Auftrag von Peter Merguerian > Gesendet: Montag, 10. September 2001 09:44 > An: 'am...@westin.org'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Betreff: RE: UL vs CSA (IT product) > > > Amend, > > See my answers in body of your message. > > > UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area,to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? > > I know there are some differences between them, the certification fee, the > certification-handling period and the number of audit/year. > > My questions are: > 1.Do they have the same status? > > Peter: Yes, to a certain extent. You must check the scope of their > acceditations in OSHA's and Standard Council of Canada's websites. > > > 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer > one of the approvals? > > Peter: Depends on the categories. But most end-users are not aware that > other NRTLs are capable of giving the same Listing service. > You must educate them. > > 3.Do we have to go for both of them? > > Peter: One is enough, but as I said above, you must educate end-users to > accept and also check if the test house is accredited for the particular > standards. > > Best regards > Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway
