RE: stun guns on aircraftThe numbers of horrendous crimes in the US is sadly exaggerated by the press. The defensive use of weapons is sadly dismissed in the news, and reported as a killing, not as a defense against killing.
I don't own my handgun for entertainment, but for protection. My bolt action rifle is too unwieldy and clumsy. I'm not easy about depriving another's life, except when mine is threatened. I'm glad you've never had to face a weapon. Even though I live in the state known for having many guns, I've never seen a gun used in a crime either. None is not better than none. It's just great. I hope that if you ever have to face a weapon that you'd be able to disarm him and restrain him until the authorities arrive. I have a black belt associate who has made the statement he'd rather face a crook that has a gun than one with a knife. The crook that uses a gun is usually too cocky, and can be disarmed fairly easily with the right moves, where a knife wielder is usually a force to be reckoned. Sam -----Original Message----- From: FLOWERDEW, Peter [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 11:17 AM To: 'Sam Davis'; Gert Gremmen; Pettit, Ghery; 'Ted Rook'; < Subject: RE: stun guns on aircraft I am reading this thread in the UK. I am a trained marksman, trained by our police, but I can not believe what I am reading. How many murders per day in New York? How many in any European capital? How many school massacres in USA? How many in Europe? In Europe the police carry guns, not the next guy who is going to object to my driving. I also happen to be a karate instructor, a professional doorman (bouncer) and I train nurses and counsellors, working with addicts and alcoholics off the streets, in low-arousal defence techniques and situation de-escalation - as well as being an FIEE emc engineer. I get scared in Houston at night (that's where an English engineer got lost, knocked on the door of a house to ask directions and was shot dead through the door - anyone want to talk to his wife?), but in four years I have never faced a gun on the nightclub doors in Bristol. Also, our gun enthusiasts do not own handguns, combat rifles or pump-action shotguns - they still have fun. I will not be the only UK professional reading this thread and from the reactions in my company, which is American owned, the ease with which people are willing to deprive another human of their life is shocking. All that said, I do not see what the topic has to do with meeting health and safety regulations. Which standard are you referring to? Peter -----Original Message----- From: Sam Davis [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 2:51 PM To: Gert Gremmen; Pettit, Ghery; 'Ted Rook'; < Subject: RE: stun guns on aircraft This has nothing to do with EMC or Product safety, but with personal and public safety. I'm with Ghery. Gert, your misrepresentation of his statement is ludicrous. Statistics bear this out. Crime rates drop drastically in nations where guns are freely owned by the PUBLIC. Look at Australia. The gov't took the gun ownership rights away, and violent crime rose horribly. Guns are not only offensive weapons, but defensive weapons as well. If some criminal approaches your wife with a gun, would you prefer her to have a pistol, or a whistle? What do you want your cops to defend your streets with? What about your military, to guard your ability to go to work, make a living, support your family, without having to worry if you'll be a captive prisoner of war, or worse? What about the security force at your airport? Guns even the playing field. When you outlaw guns, only outlaws have guns. Law abiding citizens turn them in, and can no longer defend their homes with the NECESSARY force. Fortunately, I live in a locale where gun ownership is not only allowed, but almost expected. Statistically, there are more guns than people per household. There is also a very low rate of home invasion. Since concealed carry permits have been issued, all violent crimes have dropped. Hijackers take planes because law-abiding travelers are not packing heat. I own multiple guns, legally, and I pray I never have to fire them in self defense, but I pray I don't have to use my AD&D policy either. BTW, Ted, your statement "Unfortunately America was taken by force and is defended by force and is unlikely ever to change", I disagree with your first syllable. The reason we're the prime superpower is because the world knows we will use it if we have to. The reason our allies like us is because we've got their back, (and we've thrown billions of dollars to bail them out without actually expecting payback, but that's a completely different thread). Remember grade school, who got picked on? The kid that couldn't (or wouldn't) defend himself. The guys that were obviously able to return injury never had to fight. Think about that. If any of my statements offend you because of your national pride, I'm sorry. My national pride is what brought me in here. I mean no offense to your nation, just your government's anti-gun laws. My opinions are my own, but I know my boss will back me. He's a member, too. Proud member of the National Rifle Association, standing with my brothers, supporting our constitutional right to protect ourselves until the cops are able to arrive. Sam -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Gert Gremmen Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 12:25 AM To: Pettit, Ghery; 'Ted Rook'; < Subject: RE: stun guns on aircraft So Ghery, Please let us all know your future flight schedual, so we can avoid sharing the same plane ... As you might know, yesterday, in analogy to USA 1963 Kennedy, a Netherlands Prime Minister kandidate , Pim Fortuin, a fighter for the rights for free speaking, to the degree that he attacked laws against discrimination, was killed by a such representative of the TRUE FREE MEN . I supposed , Ghery , that your interpretation of being a FREE man is not limited to the WORD... Gert Gremmen -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Pettit, Ghery Sent: dinsdag 7 mei 2002 01:24 To: 'Ted Rook'; < Subject: RE: stun guns on aircraft I've resisted jumping in in this fashion, but - FREE MEN OWN GUNS! Those who will trade essential freedoms for temporary security deserve neither - Benjamin Franklin. Folks, the 2nd Amendment pre-dates the wild west by a long time. Those of us who value our RIGHTS are tired of the wimps in the world trying to take them away. Ghery S. Pettit Life Member, National Rifle Association -----Original Message----- From: Ted Rook [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 1:08 PM To: < Subject: stun guns on aircraft and other safety considerations keep the hijackers off planes using ground security an airplane in flight is not the place to have gun fights too many lives are at risk the first priority is to get the plane safely on the ground, anywhere then at least the passengers have a chance Most citizens of most countries enjoy the security that comes from having thrashed out land rights, territorial disputes, and the systems of law and law enforcement before firearms were invented. America is one of the few places in the West that relies on firearms as a negotiating tool. This is poor judgement. Firearms are offensive weapons not negotiating tools. Giving someone a gun escalates an already dangerous situation. Now you want the pilot to not only assure the safety of the plane but also be an effective executioner. Asking too much IMHO. Unfortunately America was taken by force and is defended by force and is unlikely ever to change. ------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. 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