http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/
Hi Dave and the group, No doubt the IEC ESD waveform is too slow (700ps-1ns risetime). This resulted from trying to keep the test within the capabilities of test equipment at the time the present standard was written. At the time, 1 GHz scopes were top of the line. By keeping the risetime of the event to a nanosecond (about a 300+ MHz bandwidth), one could measure the ESD simulator instead of the scope response. Given what just happened in SC77b (revised standard rejected) the chances of defining a more realistic waveform is approximately zero. I am not home at the moment, so I don't have the complete references with me, but it has been brought to my attention by members of this list that SC47a is working on applying 61000-4-2 and other impulse tests at the device level. I hope to become a member of that group to help define the method. Doug [email protected] wrote: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium > http://www.emc2004.org/ > -------------------------------------------------- > > I stand corrected. When I said 61000-4-2 can be used for testing IC's I > considered only the waveform applied. As pointed out by Doug this > standard does not define failure for IC's. > > And speaking of the waveform, I don't think much of it. I measured many > human ESD discharges with a metal tool in the hand and the current rise > time was much faster than the standards call for. As some ESD protection > circuits are triggered by dv/dt, the slower rise time can adversely > affect the measurement. > > Anyone else out there working with TLP's for ESD testing? > > Dave Cuthbert > Micron Technology > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of drcuthbert > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:54 AM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: RE: misapplication of system level standards > > > http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium > http://www.emc2004.org/ > -------------------------------------------------- > > Individual integrated circuits are normally sample tested for Human Body > Model, Machine Model, and charge coupled device models. In any pin and > out any other pin. So 61000-4-2 can certainly be used to test an IC. 4 > kV is a common design goal for HBM. > > Dave Cuthbert > Micron Technology > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Doug Smith > Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 11:22 PM > To: emc-pstc > Subject: misapplication of system level standards > > > http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium > http://www.emc2004.org/ > -------------------------------------------------- > > Hi Everyone, > > In my travels I have visited many clients who are asked by their > customers to apply inappropriate tests to system components (with no > technical justification). This has inspired me to write an article > about it. > > This month's Technical Tidbit (link is the picture of a chip and ESD > simulator at the bottom of the page at http://emcesd.com ) deals with > system level test standards being applied to internal devices or > modules. If you design or test IC chips or modules that are included > in a larger system design, this is a must read article for you. > > Abstract: A trend in component testing has been developing in recent > years. Vendors of system components are being required by their > customers, equipment manufacturers, to apply inappropriate system > level tests to system components such as chips or modules. One such > case of misapplication of a system test to IC chips is explored and > implications discussed. > > Doug > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------- > ___ _ Doug Smith > \ / ) P.O. Box 1457 > ========= Los Gatos, CA 95031-1457 > _ / \ / \ _ TEL/FAX: 408-356-4186/358-3799 > / /\ \ ] / /\ \ Mobile: 408-858-4528 > | q-----( ) | o | Email: [email protected] > \ _ / ] \ _ / Website: http://www.dsmith.org > ------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society > emc-pstc discussion list. > > IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > > To post a message send your e-mail to [email protected] > > Instructions for use of the list server: > > http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html > > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Ron Pickard: [email protected] > Dave Heald: [email protected] > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Richard Nute: [email protected] > Jim Bacher: [email protected] > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > > ------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society > emc-pstc discussion list. > > IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > > To post a message send your e-mail to [email protected] > > Instructions for use of the list server: > > http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html > > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Ron Pickard: [email protected] > Dave Heald: [email protected] > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Richard Nute: [email protected] > Jim Bacher: [email protected] > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > > ------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society > emc-pstc discussion list. > > IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > > To post a message send your e-mail to [email protected] > > Instructions for use of the list server: > > http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html > > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Ron Pickard: [email protected] > Dave Heald: [email protected] > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Richard Nute: [email protected] > Jim Bacher: [email protected] > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > > -- ___ _ Doug Smith \ / ) P.O. Box 1457 ========= Los Gatos, CA 95031-1457 _ / \ / \ _ TEL/FAX: 408-356-4186/358-3799 / /\ \ ] / /\ \ Mobile: 408-858-4528 | q-----( ) | o | Email: [email protected] \ _ / ] \ _ / Web: http://www.dsmith.org This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to [email protected] Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: [email protected] Dave Heald: [email protected] For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: [email protected] Jim Bacher: [email protected] All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
