If we are talking about something the size of a laptop shutting down engines or yielding bad fuel quantity readings, we are talking about a high power microwave device, and not rfi.
A noisy laptop or other battery-powered handheld device will only interfere with aircraft antenna-connected COMM or NAV functions. This can be quite serious, as was the event which caused the prohibition of the use of such until at altitude, but in terms of the mechanism causing interference, it is orders of magnitude below what would cause interference to engine controls or fuel quantity indicators. > From: "Robert A. Macy" <[email protected]> > Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 08:40:38 -0800 > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Fw: Electronic equipment on commercial flights > > Good points! > > Just how much damage can an intelligent terrorist do with > an modified (very energetic) laptop? > > Anything short of shutting off the engines would seem to be > something that the pilot can over ride manually. > > Or, show fuel when none exists. > > - Robert - > > On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:37:40 -0600 > [email protected] wrote: >> While the test setup and study appears to be suspect, I >> cannot argue with >> the recommendations coming out of it: >> >> "......co-ordination of electronic emission >> standards...." (always a good >> thing in any field of endeavor) >> >> ".....monitoring of on-board radio emissions by flight >> data recorders. " >> (sometimes planes are lost for no apparent reason, more >> data wouldn't hurt) >> >> Bob Heller >> 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 >> St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 >> Tel: 651- 778-6336 >> Fax: 651-778-6252 >> ========================= >> ----- Forwarded by Robert E. Heller/US-Corporate/3M/US on >> 03/03/2006 02:28 >> AM ----- >> > >> >> Pat_Lawler@condor >> >> dc.com >> >> Sent by: >> To >> [email protected] [email protected] >> >> > >> cc >> > >> >> 03/02/2006 03:37 >> Subject >> PM Re: Electronic >> equipment on >> commercial flights >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> I question the test setup used for measuring the signals. >> The measurement >> antenna was inside the cabin area, in immediate proximity >> to the >> interference source, and far away from the victim - the >> aircraft receiver >> antennas located on the outside of the aircraft. >> The study would be more valid if the equipment measured >> the interference >> field in the vicinity of the antennas, or if it measured >> the background >> noise seen at the coax coming into the receivers. >> >> I understand if the FAA or airlines wouldn't like this >> kind of testing >> during normal flights. This should be easy to do on the >> ground, too. >> There should be more than enough test beds in the >> southwestern U.S.: >> > http://www.mojaveairport.com/Inlay_Pages/New_inlay_pages/storage_IL_new.htm >> Load it up with old laptops, discarded cellphones, used >> CD players, and >> test away! >> >> Pat Lawler >> EMC Engineer >> Condor DC Power Supplies >> >> >> >> >> >> Fred Townsend <[email protected]> >> Sent by: [email protected] >> 03/02/2006 12:20 PM >> >> To: Nick Williams >> <[email protected]> >> cc: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: Electronic equipment on >> commercial flights >> >> >> The information is indeed interesting. I also find it is >> interesting the >> study did not cite any actual interference. They used an >> onboard >> spectrum analyzer to verify people actually used, or >> tried to use their >> cell phones. If we set, as a standard, any level of >> potential >> interference, then the airplane should never fly because >> of the >> potential of the airplane to interfere with itself from >> its own >> navigation and communications systems to say nothing of >> digital fly by >> wire. What about the 'glass cockpit'? It's full of >> digital devices in >> close proximity! What about that local radar that paints >> the airplane >> with very high level microwaves just as the plane is >> landing. Shouldn't >> we be focusing on immunity standards for the cockpit? >> After all, mother >> nature puts out signals too. Ever catch a lightning burst >> on your >> spectrum analyzers? >> >> Second related subject: The cell phone design depends >> upon frequency >> reuse and hand-off from cell to cell. This works well >> when the airplane >> is on or near the ground. Both of these techniques are >> defeated when the >> radio is airborne, particularly at high altitude. The >> same radio is >> seen by multiple cell sites causing multiple responses. >> The tracking >> system will be confused by multiple reports of the same >> CID. This >> reduces the available frequencies as well as confusing >> the cell phone >> itself. This is going to result in dropped calls for all >> users. Seems >> like the system needs to automatically detect airborne >> operation and >> disable the CID. >> >> Fred Townsend >> >> >> Nick Williams wrote: >> >>> I know quite a few subscribers to this group will be >> interested in this: >>> >>> >> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/02/aircraft_mobile_phone_risk_study/ >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Nick. >>> >>> - >>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety >> Engineering Society >>> emc-pstc discussion list. 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Website: >> http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >> >> To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to >> [email protected] >> >> Instructions: >> http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html >> >> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >> >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >> >> Scott Douglas [email protected] >> Mike Cantwell [email protected] >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> >> Jim Bacher: [email protected] >> David Heald: [email protected] >> >> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the >> web at: >> >> http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc >> >> - >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering >> Society >> emc-pstc discussion list. Website: >> http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >> >> To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to >> [email protected] >> >> Instructions: >> http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html >> >> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >> >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >> >> Scott Douglas [email protected] >> Mike Cantwell [email protected] >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> >> Jim Bacher: [email protected] >> David Heald: [email protected] >> >> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the >> web at: >> >> http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc >> >> - >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering >> Society >> emc-pstc discussion list. Website: >> http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >> >> To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to >> [email protected] >> >> Instructions: >> http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html >> >> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html >> >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: >> >> Scott Douglas [email protected] >> Mike Cantwell [email protected] >> >> For policy questions, send mail to: >> >> Jim Bacher: [email protected] >> David Heald: [email protected] >> >> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the >> web at: >> >> http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society > emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > > To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to [email protected] > > Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html > > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Scott Douglas [email protected] > Mike Cantwell [email protected] > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Jim Bacher: [email protected] > David Heald: [email protected] > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to [email protected] Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas [email protected] Mike Cantwell [email protected] For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: [email protected] David Heald: [email protected] All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
