Happy New Year to all, I do not have a specific requirement with regard to the NRTL OSHA discussion but an academic curiosity with regard the differences between Stateside law and European (UK) law. In the UK it is the Businesses responsibility to ensure that equipment used in ITS workplace is safe and fit for purpose and to supply any necessary training to staff. Such equipment must comply with the essential requirements of and applicable safety directives when "taken into service". If "domestic" equipment is used in the workplace it is still the Businesses responsibility to ensure safety and fit for purpose and to provide any necessary training to the users. The manufacturer of a domestic product is not obliged to make any provision for "commercial/business/industrial use" unless the product is marketed for that purpose. Indeed I have seen statements in instructions for use that say "for domestic use only". The upshot of this is that the equipment usually caries CE marking against the appropriate Directives and this is taken as read. A risk assessment regarding the products actual use in the workplace is still required and further protection measures must be put into place to reduce risk of harm as far as is practicable. The user must ensure that the item is fit for purpose and that necessary training is given. If the item is (say) purchased from outside the EU, this does not prevent the item being used. All the responsibilities of the business with respect to workplace safety remain. This includes the responsibility to ensure that the item meets the essential requirements of applicable directives. If the item is made "in-house" for use "in-house" the same rules apply - meet essential requirements of applicable directives, be fit for purpose, risk assessment of actual use, further mitigation, necessary training provided. ==== In the United States of America, if I understand the comments correctly, items for use in the workplace are required to have safety certification from a recognised body, with some exceptions. I am not clear what the exceptions might cover, particularly with regard to low volume and imported equipment. It also seems that equipment designed and produced by the manufacturer for domestic use, must be certified by an approved body (at the manufacturers expense) just in case a business decides to purchase it for use in the workplace. Is this correct? If so, does this extend the manufacturers liability into the realm of ensuring that it is fit for the "industrial" workload etc. (rather than just the lighter domestic use)? If so, this would seem to me to be a fundamental difference between EU and USA that I was unaware of. Thanks in advance for any replies. Regards Tim
_____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of peter merguerian Sent: 30 December 2006 17:40 To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: OSHA reg? *** WARNING *** This mail has originated outside your organization, either from an external partner or the Global Internet. Keep this in mind if you answer this message. Ted, OSHA regulates the workplace. There are products like coffee makers which can be used in both the workplace and at home. Such products must also be NRTL approved. For products not regulated by OSHA, as you have noted, there are no requirements for having an NRTL approved product. However, most large US retailers will not purchase products having US standards without an NRTL approval - the NRTL must be on their list of approved laboratories. In regards to your question "is it legal to sell a consumer product without NRTL approval?": Yes, as there is no border control (such as the CCC Mark for China) and no regulator doing market surveillance (such as the Japan METI doing market surveiilance to see if products fall under the Denan law and bear the PSE Mark). My question to you. "How can a manufacturer ensure a consumer type product, like the coffe maker will not end up in the workplace?" The UL1082 standard for household coffee makers as well as other household product standards are included in the OSHA list of test standards recognized. Due to demand from retailers and the fact that many household products can also end up in the workplace, a manufacturer would be taking a big risk not having an NRTL approval on the product. Happy New Year to All, Peter [email protected] wrote: Art Michael has brought some clarification on OSHA requirements to my attention and my previous understanding was incorrect. Although the standards are not as clear as they could be, OSHA has an interpretation stating that, except for a few specified cases, products must be approved by an NRTL. Certainly any mass produced item would fall into this category. This link shows the OSHA interpretation fairly well. http://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/faq_nrtl.html#15 I would like to thank Art for his guidance and I apologize if my earlier messages had led anybody in the wrong direction. This leads me to another question. I am one of those strange people who actually looks for NRTL marking on products. I have seen electrical products with no NRTL approval marking. These have all been consumer products intended for the home. Is my understanding correct that OSHA has authority only over commercial establishments and not residential installations. Is this correct? If so, is it legal to sell a consumer product without NRTL approval? Ted Eckert American Power Conversion Corporation The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC nor representing APC's official position on any matter. Arthur Michael ink.com> To Sent by: [email protected] [email protected] cc [email protected] Subject 12/29/2006 08:28 Re: OSHA reg? AM Hello Ted, Although I'm not a lawyer, I can't agree with your initial sentence below. All one needs to do to find the 'connection' to NRTLs is to look at the definitions for either "Listed" or "Labeled" at 29 CFR 1910.399. The attestations of NRTLs are explicitly required within both of those definitions as well as in the definitions for, "Approved", "Certified", and other related terms. The terms "Accepted" & "Acceptable (i)" also require NRTL determinations. Exceptions, which I don't believe are germaine to this discussion, are noted in the definitions "Acceptable (ii)" and Acceptable (iii)" Best regards, Art Michael ======================================================================= On Fri, 29 Dec 2006, [email protected] wrote: > I can simplify the situation by stating that OSHA does not require > equipment to have NRTL approval. 1910.303 states "Electrical equipment > shall be free from recognized hazards that are likely to cause death or > serious physical harm to employees.... Suitability of equipment for an > identified purpose may be evidenced by listing or labeling for that > identified purpose." > > http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9880 > > Equipment that has no NRTL approval can be sold, but it is then up to the > AHJ to determine the safety of the electrical equipment. The AHJ may have > restrictions on how they can determine safety. However, in reality the AHJ > has a lot of power and you are at their mercy if you have an unapproved > product. > > Ted Eckert > American Power Conversion Corporation > > The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the > writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer > is not speaking in an official capacity for APC nor representing APC's > official position on any matter. > > > > Arthur Michael > > ink.com> To > Sent by: EMC-PSTC - Forum > [email protected] > cc > Jim Eichner > 12/28/2006 09:55 > PM Subject > Re: OSHA reg? > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jim, > > I believe you seek the following; 29 CFR Part 1910 Subpart S, > (especially 1910.303 and 1910.399). For details see: > > http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp show_document?p_table=FEDERAL_REGISTER&p_id=15480 > > > This regulation is further supported by the very precise definitions (see > Certified, Listed, Labeled, Approved, etc) found at: > > http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9976 > > > For an easier-to-follow (but unofficial) version, see: > http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/29CFR/1910/osha_1910_subpart_s.htm > > Related Links can be found on the Safety Link > When there, just use your browser's FIND function (Typically, Control F) > and input the term, 29 CFR 1910 -This will take you to directly related > links. > > I hope this helps. > > Happy New Year, Art Michael > > Int'l Product Safety News > A.E. Michael, Editor > P.O. Box 1561 INT > Middletown CT 06457-8061 U.S.A. > > Phone : (860) 344-1651 > Fax : (860) 346-9066 > Email : [email protected] > Website: http://www.safetylink.com > ISSN : 1040-7529 > > ======================================= > On Thu, 28 Dec 2006, Jim Eichner wrote: > >> I am under the impression that there's an OSHA reg on the books >> somewhere that says something along the lines of "any electrical >> equipment that is to be used in the workplace must have a product safety >> approval from an NRTL". > >> Can anyone confirm or correct me, and does anyone have a reference to >> chapter and verse? I spent 20 minutes looking on OSHA's site and didn't >> feel like I was going to find it. > >> Thanks, >> Jim Eichner, P.Eng. >> Compliance Engineering Manager >> Xantrex Technology Inc. >> e-mail: [email protected] >> web: www.xantrex.com > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society > emc-pstc discussion list. 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