I can see this statement being true ( so I believe we agree Dennis )... A long time ago. We don't all crowd in a narrow band of the spectrum these days.
Let me be clear, I don't advocate NO limits, just sensible ones, and ones that are set based on sound judgment not opinion and stroke of the pen. When the need for the limit goes away because of a technology shift, then the limit should be removed. It's a sad fact that once something is in place no one has the guts to remove it: and thats wrong. Interesting that the FCC should be formed by Manufactures asking for controls. My opinion of EU product standards is that they are greatly influenced by manufacturers trying to make their lives easier... The use of billions is emotional. Our EMC concerns rapidly disappear with distance. I would be moving if "billions" lived near me.. Cheers, Derek. -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Ward <[email protected]> To: 'Ken Javor' <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Fri, Feb 11, 2011 10:37 am Subject: RE: [PSES] EUT power cord length Back in the early 20’s (1920’s) when there were “NO LIMITS” even the makers of radios and electric devices understsood that without some form of legal limits it was chaos. No one could get any thing. So a bunch of manufacturers mind you, went to congress and said ‘control us’ for we cannot control ourselves. And so, the FCC was born. Not from government wanting to mandate, but from manufacturers realizes greed cannot control itself. And that is still the unfortunate thing with the spectrum, makers and users, because everything is right in their own eyes, cannot control themselves. Trouble now, however, seems to be that they actually think they can. It would be interesting to see just what would happen if limits were removed – if chaos existed in the industry when there were only a few thousand users, what would happen with billions??? Removing limits is not the answer. Responsible use is. Dennis Ward Director of Engineering American Certification Body Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry http://www.acbcert.com 703-847-4700 fax 703-847-6888 direct - 703-880-4841 From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]?> ] On Behalf Of Ken Javor Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 8:13 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PSES] EUT power cord length Rfi limits are met at 3 or 10 meters. The TV owner’s neighbor may be trying to receive a 30 MHz broadcast. In fact, entirely aside from the technical aspects of far field measurements being more accurate, part of the original rationale for the three and ten meter requirements was that an interference caused by the consumer’s own radio reception was not nearly as important as to his neighbor’s, because the consumer could deal with his own rfi issue by turning something off that was under his control. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 ________________________________ From: Derek Walton <[email protected]> List-Post: [email protected] Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 10:49:49 -0500 To: <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] EUT power cord length That may be, but what portion of Plasma TV owners have SW radios... and are likely to be using them at the same time.. We should not be pursuing limits for Possible interference, only Probable. Otherwise we would never be able to get stuff to market.. at a price a consumer can afford. Cheers, Derek. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Javor <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, Feb 11, 2011 9:33 am Subject: Re: [PSES] EUT power cord length Ummm, 30 MHz is the upper end of the short wave or high frequency band. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 ________________________________ From: Derek Walton <[email protected]> List-Post: [email protected] Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 10:17:56 -0500 To: <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] EUT power cord length And what does this unique device interfere with? I'm sure lots of things radiate, but if there's nothing to interfere with, that matters, who cares? -----Original Message----- From: Grasso, Charles <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, Feb 11, 2011 8:53 am Subject: RE: [PSES] EUT power cord length Hello – Plasmas *do* radiate significantly below 30MHz, It is a function of their technology. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]?> <mailto:[email protected]?> ] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:02 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PSES] EUT power cord length I'm surprised that something as small as a plasma television receiver would radiate effectively below 30Mhz, especially if its mains conducted emissions are below the limits. Could it be the attached cables that are the radiators and if so, then perhaps those signal ports need a conducted emissions test. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Ralph McDiarmid | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Regulatory Engineer From: John Woodgate <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Date: 02/09/2011 07:29 AM Subject: Re: [PSES] EUT power cord length ________________________________ In message <[email protected]>, dated Wed, 9 Feb 2011, Derek Walton <[email protected]> writes: >I'd be strongly in favor of moving the conducted/radiated testing >transition to around the 100 MHz region and setting test distance at a >standard 3 meters also. That would be for both emissions and immunity. > >Any organization working on something like this? The IEC/CISPR is being asked to look at standards for radiated emissions below 30 MHz, instead! Large plasma TVs and electric vehicles are said to cause disturbances in this frequency range due to radiated emissions. Methods of measurement for magnetic field emissions are in some cases already known, but the disturbances are said to be due to electric fields. If it was easy, it wouldn't be so fascinating. (;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk> <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk> and www.isce.org.uk <http://www.isce.org.uk> <http://www.isce.org.uk> John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Plural: data, criteria, phenomena. Singular: datum (different meaning: use 'data element' for a single item), criterion, phenomenon. 'Effect' is a noun, 'affect' is a verb (except in psychiatry). - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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