Dear Colleagues, I tried to find out on several channels information regarding the TYPE of ACCEPTABLE PLUGS to be used within DIRECT PLUG-IN TRANSFORMERS placed on the CHINESE MARKET. I was not able to find at least an answer. I searched on Internet and the results that I found are not relevant; I have the following questions: The RATINGS of that DIRECT PLUG-IN transformer are:
PRIMARY 220-230V ac, SECONDARY 16Vac /20VA The QUESTIONS are: 1. Which is the MOST COMMON PLUG CONFIGURATION IN CHINA ? (ROUND pins, OR FLAT, or "Aus-asia" configuration )? DETAILS regarding this aspect (geometry, size, insulation, etc. will be very much appreciated, INCLUDING the NAME of the APPLICABLE REGULATORY DOCUMENT (Standard) that covers the DIRECT PLUG-IN TRANSFORMERS in China). 2. IF there an English version of that Standard, please be so kind and advise me from where we are able to buy it. 3. Are there in China any Standards for the INPUT PLUGS ? (e.g.: in Australia they have a specific Standard that covers Approval and test specification-Plugs and socket-outlets, AS/NZS 3112:2004) 4. Any available specification it will be very much appreciated if you can share with me, pictures, links, etc. 5. IS IT MANDATORY for a such DIRECT PLUG-IN TRANSFORMER to have the CCC APPROVAL or not ? In my engineering judgement the answer is YES, but I received some feedback that due to the OUTPUT (?!?) voltage (less than 35 Volts) it is not necessary to be CCC Approved...??!? Your feedback and advises are very much appreciated. Respectfully yours, Constantin Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng. TYCO SAFETY PRODUCTS CANADA 3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2 CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA e-mail: cbolintine...@tycoint.com Tel: 905 760 3000 ext 2568 Fax: 905 760 3020 DISCLAIMER: This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return the message and its attachments to the sender, and then please delete from your system without copying or forwarding it or call TSPC at 905 760 3000 extension 2568 so that the sender's address records can be corrected. ________________________________ From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Aldous, Scott Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 10:44 AM To: Curt McNamara; ted.eck...@apcc.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Safety regulations [text][heur][BCC][ffrom][spf] Curt writes: To phrase this another way: someone else's label (the power supply manufacturer) is not a valid indicator that a product has a safety approval. If I understand the original question correctly, this is what it really comes down to. The power supply may be Listed by itself, but that does not mean that the end product using it is then somehow covered by the power supply Listing, even if no additional hazards are present in the end product outside the power supply. If there is a requirement for the end product to be Listed, then it must be evaluated separately. Allowing the power supply Listing mark to be visible in the end product in such a way that the customer is led to believe that this mark covers the end product is a no-no. Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer Advanced Energy Tel: 970-407-6872 Fax: 970-407-5872 ________________________________ From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Curt McNamara Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 8:38 AM To: ted.eck...@apcc.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Safety regulations Wow! The chart shows 2A at 45V for Class II, or 100VA as you note. This is a lot of energy to me, and can certainly result in ignition given the correct conditions. I note that the standard also shows voltages above SELV as permissible. The implication in the original question was information technology (as far as I could tell). Even with approved supplies and only SELV levels safety investigations are still required. Some examples: Flammable material (the laptop plastic case). Fault (5V to ground) causes part to fall off board through vent hole, igniting material on table. There are lots of ways to design unsafe products using only SELV (not even considering Class II). If your product needs a safety approval then an investigation is required. To phrase this another way: someone else's label (the power supply manufacturer) is not a valid indicator that a product has a safety approval. Curt in real life Curt McNamara, P.E. // principal electrical engineer Logic Product Development 411 Washington Ave. N. Suite 400 Minneapolis, MN 55401 T // 612.436.5178 F // 612.672.9489 _www.logicpd.com_ </exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.logicpd.com/> On May 2, 2008, at 7:24 AM, ted.eck...@apcc.com wrote: The output of a Class 2/LPS circuit does not have the voltage or energy to be a shock or ignition risk as long as that voltage is used without any changes. I could design a circuit with an inverter and step-up transformer that would give me a hazardous voltage. The Class 2 limit is 100 W. In theory, I could get 1000 VAC RMS at 100 mA. Even with losses due efficiency limits, there would be enough current to kill somebody. I will say that in general, if you are using a power supply that meets the 60950 LPS or the NEC Class 2 limits (they are basically the same) then you can hang circuits off the output without problems. However, it still needs to be investigated in a case by case basis. Ted Eckert APC-MGE http://www.apc.com/ The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC-MGE or Schneider Electric. The speaker does not represent APC-MGE's or Schneider Electric's official position on any matter. scott barrows <sbarrows9@yahoo. com> To Sent by: Curt McNamara <mcnam...@umn.edu>, emc-p...@ieee.org peter merguerian <pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com> cc 05/02/2008 07:10 Benoit Nadeau <bnad...@matrox.com>, AM EMC-PSTC <emc-p...@ieee.org> Subject Re: Safety regulations If the power supply is an NEC class 2 (vs a class II insulation system) or an LPS construction, then there is not enough current available to be a fire hazard. Scott Curt McNamara <mcnam...@umn.edu> wrote: What if a short occurred on one of these PCBs? Is there enough flammable material to constitute a fire hazard? Could a component get hot enough to melt connections and drop off, igniting material underneath the product? As you can see, there may be other cases to consider. Given that an event could initiate legal action, it may be wise to have a third party verify safety. Curt On May 1, 2008, at 10:37 PM, peter merguerian wrote: If the power supply is Listed/Certified Class 2 (power limited outputs) and there are no hazardous energy levels, I see no problems. Peter Merguerian Benoit Nadeau <bnad...@matrox.com> wrote: Bonjour, I’m much more fluent in EMC than safety and this is why I respectfully seek advice in this matter. I have a question coming from the designers and I’ve been looking in the US regulations (the NEC mainly) to find the answer but I didn’t. I think this is more like an interpretation than anything else. So the question is: If a PCB manufacturer buys a card cage that includes a fully listed power supply (approved by UL or CSA or ETL or any NRTL), and stuff this cage with his own PCBs (not listed) with no harmful external voltages or access to, and resell this as a whole new product. Can he put that on the market without having to re-list the new product as long as the markings on the power supply are still visible from outside the box? For me this would be like having an external Power Supply that feeds very low voltage to a box (like a laptop computer), Thank you for the time you are going to take to answer this. Regards, ========================================== Benoit Nadeau, ing. M.ing. Gérant du Groupe Conformité (Conformity Group Manager) Matrox 1055 boul. St-Régis Dorval (Québec) Canada H9P 2T4 Tél: (514) 822-6000 (2475) FAX: (514) 822-6275 bnad...@matrox.com www.matrox.com ========================================== - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. 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