Don't forget we are dealing with Registered Trademarks. The NRTLs have complete discretion over who is allowed to use their mark. They also, of course, have complete discretion over what test data they accept. We have found some NRTLs accept other NRTLs data only when a complete test report is provided. Complete = list of equipment, method, results, signatures, etc. that complies with ISO17025. Providing just a lists of tests conducted has not gotten us very far. Unfortunately some NRTLs no longer provide complete test reports and/or don't allow you to copy and send to anyone.
Is it that NRTLs don't trust each other's data? Or is the pink elephant in the room revenue and market share?? I completely understand this, but can't competitors separate themselves based on price and service? Wouldn't it be nice if we can all just get along and get out of the way of mfg'rs so they can get products to market faster? Doesn't this ultimately improve all of our economies?? - getting more done in less time. I believe this discussion has been going on for years and will likely continue for many more. -----Original Message----- From: Tyra, John [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 8:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue NRTL's are like doctors. Just because someone has a medical degree does not mean they are good doctors. Same with NRTL's in my experience. Just because they are accredited does not mean they are good test labs. There are ones that do excellent jobs and others not so much. When I was at TUV we went through the OSHA accreditation process and became an NRTL, for a small scope of standards at the time, and there is only so much they can check in a two day accreditation audit. They are also not experts in the standards they are accrediting a lab for. In our audit they checked for laboratory quality procedures, made sure we had the equipment to do the tests, and had us run a few tests to make sure we could do them but the auditors did not know the details of the standards they were auditing. Now maybe this has changed, as my experience is from 20+ years ago, but that is how it was back then. Unfortunately NRTL's can impose additional requirements they feel are justified and I doubt OSHA hears about these issues and I am not sure they could or would intervene in any case as IMHO the NRTL personnel generally know more about the requirements then OSHA does. Personally I found the CB Scheme audits to be much more thorough as back 20+ years ago when I participated in one the auditors were Engineers who were expert in the safety standards and did test us on our standard expertise. But even for the CB scheme audits are not all encompassing as I have found that NCB/CBTL expertise varies greatly depending on which lab you choose. -----Original Message----- From: John Woodgate [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 2:25 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PSES] Battery certification issue In message <49b036a46b7543609a62f14804058...@bn1pr08mb059.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> , dated Wed, 3 Sep 2014, "Nyffenegger, Dave" <[email protected]> writes: >But the NRTLs are accredited and regularly reviewed/inspected by their >accreditation bodies in order to stay on OSHAs NRTL list as I am >repeatedly reminded by the NRTLs otherwise their mark becomes worthless. So the accreditation bodies tolerate arbitrary and unreasoning decisions by the NRTLs? Or do they just never get to hear about them? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Quid faciamus nisi sit? John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> David Heald: <[email protected]> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> David Heald: <[email protected]> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> David Heald: <[email protected]>
