Mick,
Care to guess why NFPA 79 2015 (not to mention ANSI Y14) still refers to the
older IEEE standard while at the same time tries to harmonize with EN 60204-1
("Requirements align with IEC 60204-1")? Perhaps a "not invented here"
syndrome? Although IEEE <> USA. Sounds like I should not bother with the IEEE
standards.
Interestingly my next question (not necessarily to PSES) was/is if there are
(correct) IEC 60617 symbol libraries for AutoCAD. That would perhaps eliminate
the need for the subscription since that's primarily what we need the symbols
for anyway.
Thanks
-Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Mick Maytum [mailto:mjmay...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2015 5:26 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Cc: Nyffenegger, Dave
Subject: Re: [PSES] Graphic Symbols for Electrical and Electronics Diagrams
David,
I am familiar with IEEE Std 315, IEEE Std 315A
(supplement) and the IEC 60617 database.
The 315 was created in 1975 and the 315A in 1986. These documents show
some symbols with an over and under lined "IEC" label. At the time of creation
the IEC reference was to the symbols in IEC publication 117. At the beginning
of
the 1980s IEC Publication 117: "Recommended graphical
symbols" was replaced by Publication 617. Another ten years on and Publication
617 was replaced by IEC 60617.
Many of the 315 and 315A document symbols no longer match what is in the
current IEC 60617 database. For example the IEEE Std shows two "IEC" options
for a resistor; a zig-zag line or a rectangle. Look in IEC 60617 and you find
the zig zag resistor symbol (ref. S01355) was made obsolete in 1996-06 being
replaced by the rectangle symbol (ref.
S00555). There are many other symbol instances where the 315/315A are out of
date compared to IEC 60617.
The frustration with both the IEEE and IEC documents is that all the
symbols are bit maps meaning you have to create your own vector versions or buy
vector versions elsewhere. A years subscription to the IEC 60617 is expensive
if you just want to check what is available. An alternative is to Google
commercial libraries for CAD software as these will often have thumbnails of
the symbols available. Just because a well-known vendor offers a set of IEC
60617 symbols doesn't mean they are drawn correctly either. The Autodesk
Knowledge network does give you (fuzzy) previews of various symbol sets. You
could have a stab in the dark and Google something like IEC60617 Symbols.pdf in
the hope of getting a PDF file listing the symbols.
Regards
Mick
On 13/01/2015 19:06, Nyffenegger, Dave wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> Anyone familiar with in IEC 60617-DB:2001 and IEEE 315/315A? Perhaps the
> older IEEE standards are just a subset of the newer IEC standard?
>
> -Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nyffenegger, Dave [mailto:dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2015 12:05 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] Graphic Symbols for Electrical and Electronics
> Diagrams
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> EN 60204-1 section 17.6 says " Any graphical symbol not shown in IEC
> 60617-DB:2001 shall be separately shown and described on the diagrams or
> supporting
> documents." NFPA 79 is harmonizing to EN 60204 and 17.7.1 has similar
> language but refers to IEEE 315/315A. I don't have either symbol standard
> yet and IEC 60717 is only available by subscription to online dB. The IEEE
> standards have been around for quite a while. I'm wondering how similar the
> symbols are between IEC 60617 and IEEE 315, anybody know? I can buy a copy
> of IEEE 315 for a reasonable price and I'm wondering if there is any
> additional need for the IEC 60617. One would hope that a common set of
> symbols would be acceptable in the US and Europe.
>
> Also, does anyone know what the restrictions are on the IEEE standard PDF
> files? i.e. on one end of the spectrum with only a watermark and the other
> end node locked to a single PC, can't print or can only print 1 copy ever,
> can't move to another PC when the original goes south without divine
> intervention, making the PDF pretty much useless etc?
>
> Thanks
> -Dave
>
> David P. Nyffenegger, PMP, SM-IEEE
> Product Development Manager
> Bell and Howell
>
> -
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
> e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used
> formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org>
> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org>
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org>
> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
>
> -
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
> e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used
> formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org>
> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org>
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org>
> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
-
----------------------------------------------------------------
This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
<emc-p...@ieee.org>
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used
formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org>
Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org>
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org>
David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
