Having worked in many US standards development
organisations (SDOs) I would tend to describe their attitude
as parochial. This is partly because the working groups are
mainly made up of US people who have not been exposed to the
international scene. On the face of it the 315/315A must be
trustworthy as it is also ANSI Y32.2, CSA Z99 and references
the IEC! I wonder if the IEEE Standards Coordinating
Committee 11, Graphic Symbols, which created 315/315A, is
even still functioning - it certainly hasn't filed a
mandatory Polices and Procedures document at the IEEE AudCom
site. I regard 315/315A as of historical interest to show
where we started out from and not where we are today.
As to your second question, yes you can get IEC 60617
compliant AutoCAD libraries. I have previously used AutoCAD,
but it is expensive software with a steep learning curve. I
think you have to use it extensively to justify the
investment. It would be nice to find a lower cost drawing
package with a correctly drawn symbol set. I can remember
being disappointed with the Visio offering. Even at the
fundamental level it was wrong with the resistor symbol
rectangle having a side 2.5:1 ratio instead of the IEC 60617
ratio of 3.0:1.
Regards
Mick
On 17/01/2015 22:57, Nyffenegger, Dave wrote:
Mick,
Care to guess why NFPA 79 2015 (not to mention ANSI Y14) still refers to the older IEEE standard while at
the same time tries to harmonize with EN 60204-1 ("Requirements align with IEC 60204-1")?
Perhaps a "not invented here" syndrome? Although IEEE <> USA. Sounds like I should not
bother with the IEEE standards.
Interestingly my next question (not necessarily to PSES) was/is if there are
(correct) IEC 60617 symbol libraries for AutoCAD. That would perhaps eliminate
the need for the subscription since that's primarily what we need the symbols
for anyway.
Thanks
-Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Mick Maytum [mailto:mjmay...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2015 5:26 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Cc: Nyffenegger, Dave
Subject: Re: [PSES] Graphic Symbols for Electrical and Electronics Diagrams
David,
I am familiar with IEEE Std 315, IEEE Std 315A
(supplement) and the IEC 60617 database.
The 315 was created in 1975 and the 315A in 1986. These documents show some symbols
with an over and under lined "IEC" label. At the time of creation the IEC
reference was to the symbols in IEC publication 117. At the beginning of
the 1980s IEC Publication 117: "Recommended graphical
symbols" was replaced by Publication 617. Another ten years on and Publication
617 was replaced by IEC 60617.
Many of the 315 and 315A document symbols no longer match what is in the current
IEC 60617 database. For example the IEEE Std shows two "IEC" options for a
resistor; a zig-zag line or a rectangle. Look in IEC 60617 and you find the zig zag
resistor symbol (ref. S01355) was made obsolete in 1996-06 being replaced by the
rectangle symbol (ref.
S00555). There are many other symbol instances where the 315/315A are out of
date compared to IEC 60617.
The frustration with both the IEEE and IEC documents is that all the
symbols are bit maps meaning you have to create your own vector versions or buy
vector versions elsewhere. A years subscription to the IEC 60617 is expensive
if you just want to check what is available. An alternative is to Google
commercial libraries for CAD software as these will often have thumbnails of
the symbols available. Just because a well-known vendor offers a set of IEC
60617 symbols doesn't mean they are drawn correctly either. The Autodesk
Knowledge network does give you (fuzzy) previews of various symbol sets. You
could have a stab in the dark and Google something like IEC60617 Symbols.pdf in
the hope of getting a PDF file listing the symbols.
Regards
Mick
On 13/01/2015 19:06, Nyffenegger, Dave wrote:
Hi folks,
Anyone familiar with in IEC 60617-DB:2001 and IEEE 315/315A? Perhaps the older
IEEE standards are just a subset of the newer IEC standard?
-Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Nyffenegger, Dave [mailto:dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2015 12:05 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Graphic Symbols for Electrical and Electronics
Diagrams
Hi Folks,
EN 60204-1 section 17.6 says " Any graphical symbol not shown in IEC
60617-DB:2001 shall be separately shown and described on the diagrams or supporting
documents." NFPA 79 is harmonizing to EN 60204 and 17.7.1 has similar
language but refers to IEEE 315/315A. I don't have either symbol standard yet and
IEC 60717 is only available by subscription to online dB. The IEEE standards have
been around for quite a while. I'm wondering how similar the symbols are between
IEC 60617 and IEEE 315, anybody know? I can buy a copy of IEEE 315 for a reasonable
price and I'm wondering if there is any additional need for the IEC 60617. One
would hope that a common set of symbols would be acceptable in the US and Europe.
Also, does anyone know what the restrictions are on the IEEE standard PDF
files? i.e. on one end of the spectrum with only a watermark and the other end
node locked to a single PC, can't print or can only print 1 copy ever, can't
move to another PC when the original goes south without divine intervention,
making the PDF pretty much useless etc?
Thanks
-Dave
David P. Nyffenegger, PMP, SM-IEEE
Product Development Manager
Bell and Howell
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