Thermal time constants deal with thermistors and how it changes from one temperature to another or from one ‘ambient state’ to another. One thermal time constant is approximately 63.2% of the total difference in temperature form the initial temperature to a new temperature. They do not however define the total system thermal reactions. Thus, the need for any system to have a defined ‘wait time’ to allow temperature stabilization for other than thermistors.
Thanks Dennis Ward This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. From: Gary Tornquist [mailto:000008f1d78b7a2b-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] Sent: Friday, January 6, 2017 11:12 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Thermal equilibrium - 10% rule As others have said a fixed number of minutes to wait, doesn’t make sense. How long it takes to reach thermal equilibrium to a given number of degrees depends on the thermal time constant(s) of the system under test and the size of the thermal step imposed on the system. I had some success estimating thermal time constants by curve fitting with Excel. From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 6, 2017 10:53 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Thermal equilibrium - 10% rule Ralph, I have used 1-minute as well . In fact for Solar PV systems the Sandia Efficiency test protocol recommends 5 second and 30 second intervals with a fairly complex averaging algorithm to boot. <http://www.gosolarcalifornia.ca.gov/equipment/documents/Sandia_Guideline_2005.pdf> http://www.gosolarcalifornia.ca.gov/equipment/documents/Sandia_Guideline_2005.pdf Doug On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Ralph McDiarmid <ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com <mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com> > wrote: For what it's worth, we measure and log temperatures at 1 minute intervals (sometimes quicker, depending on what is being tested) and graph each data set in Excel and look at the curves. When they go flat (even with some ripple), we call it stable. Good enough for all the agencies we work with. And I like the term steady-state much better, but what it is called isn't terribly important as I see it. The temperature can be stable (no further increase observable) over a period, even if it's oscillating slightly around a mean value. The mean value could be the average of the last 20 or so reading for instance. It requires some judgement. I empathize with John's experience about it taking "many tellings" on a committee to get something right. I have stopped just short of the Makita Khrushchev United Nations technique at times! Ralph McDiarmid Product Compliance Engineering Solar Business Schneider Electric -----Original Message----- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com <mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com> ] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 8:21 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Thermal equilibrium - 10% rule I understand that if the system is poorly designed there can be catastrophic results, but the test is written assuming the equipment temperature does equilibrate, right? Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 <tel:%28256%29%20650-5261> > From: John Barnes <jrbar...@iglou.com <mailto:jrbar...@iglou.com> > > Reply-To: <jrbar...@iglou.com <mailto:jrbar...@iglou.com> > > Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2017 00:06:24 -0500 > To: Ken Javor <ken.ja...@emccompliance.com > <mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com> > > Cc: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> > > Subject: Re: [PSES] Thermal equilibrium - 10% rule > > Ken, > Most metals have a positive Temperature Coefficient of Resistance (TCR). > As they get hotter, their resistivity-- and the resistance of a given > conductor-- increases. If you have a current source (or a voltage > source with a large series impedance) driving current through a small > cross-section conductor with poor heat sinking for a long time, the > conductor will go into thermal runaway-- and eventually melt in two-- > when the current through it exceeds a certain critical value, > depending on the ambient temperature. > > A. J. Rainal wrote two papers about this effect on printed circuit > boards (PCB's) about 40 years ago: > * Rainal, A. J., "Current-Carrying Capacity of Fine-Line Printed > Conductors," The Bell System Technical Journal, vol. 60 no. 7, pp. > 1375-1388, September 1981. > * Rainal, A. J., "Temperature Rise at a Constriction in a > Current-Carrying Printed Conductor," The Bell System Technical > Journal, vol. 55 no. 2, pp. 233-269, February 1976. > > Non-resettable fuses use this principle, which is specified by the > I^2t curves in their datasheets. > > You may also want to read up on Preece's Law (Fuse Equations) and > Onderdonk's Fuse Equation. > > > > John Barnes KS4GL (retired) > Lexington, Kentucky > http://www.dbicorporation.com/ > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. ______________________________________________________________________ - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > -- Douglas E Powell <mailto:doug...@gmail.com> doug...@gmail.com <http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
