Re: [PSES] EN62311 - Human Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields

[John Woodgate]

Yes, there are very big 'safety factors' built into the requirements, 
more in Europe than in USA. Much of the interest in Europe was generated 
by Scandinavian trades unions concerned about 'radiation' from CRT 
displays. Adverse health effects of a general nature(headaches, 
insomnia, general malaise) were very likely much more due to poor 
working conditions and job interest, but the unions are very powerful.

You can't subject people to increasingly strong fields until they show a 
reaction, it would be highly unethical.

John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-07-05 19:55, Doug Smith wrote:
Hi Michael and the group,

With the exception tissue heating generated by some sources at very 
high frequencies, I wonder if the EM field exposure worries today are 
a bit overblown. I started my experiments in high voltage  (100,000+ 
Volts, and NOT static electricity) around age 13 and by age 14 was 
regularly immersing myself in 10,000+V/m, 300 kHz fields. It was fun, 
heating up screw driver blades from induction heating, lighting 
incandescent light bulbs (as well as fluorescent tubes) without wires, 
and more. About 600 Watts of RF energy was concentrated in the 
relatively small space I was in and I was uninjured! My kids all have 
two arms, two legs, and one head and I am still here almost 60 years 
later and healthier than 90% of adults of any age from 18 on. Some of 
my friends say this explains a lot about me (frying brain cells) though.

I realize this is only one case, but have had a lot of high energy RF 
exposure throughout my life. Such as the field in my dorm room from my 
amateur radio transmitter being so strong that the fluorescent tubes 
in the room lit up with no power and blinked with Morse code. I had to 
remove the tubes from their fixtures and cover with towels so my 
roommate could sleep.

Still here,
Doug



On Thu, 5 Jul 2018 16:27:12 +0100, Michael Derby wrote:

It’s not quite an “unintentional radiator” but if you had a wireless 
charger which did not contain any communication (e.g., a dumb charging 
signal without handshaking), then it would come within the scope of 
the EMCD and the LVD (not the RED), and RF Exposure would therefore be 
an issue under the LVD.

Michael.

*From:*McCallum, Andy [mailto:andy.mccal...@mottmac.com]
*Sent:* 05 July 2018 15:33
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] EN62311 - Human Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields

Be surprised if any LVD could cause EMF large enough to pose a danger 
to Human Health. Intentional transmitters maybe, a rare beast to 
create those levels unintentionally at less than 1000V.

Andy

*From:*John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
*Sent:* 05 July 2018 10:28
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] EN62311 - Human Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields

It applies to any LVD product, but there is a flow chart that shows 
that a simple assessment is possible if the product has no reasonable 
likelihood of producing sufficiently strong EMF.

John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associateswww.woodjohn.uk 
<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.woodjohn.uk&data=01%7C01%7CAndy.McCallum%40mottmac.com%7C3897dc1f76c0406b3a9808d5e259910b%7Ca2bed0c459574f73b0c2a811407590fb%7C0&sdata=vOXyjzMm8FtxrbHRrTRbkgWlhb8gQeuv%2FiISyiAwg24%3D&reserved=0>
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-07-05 10:09, Amund Westin wrote:

    EN62311 is listed in OJ and a harmonized LVD standard.

    Does EN62311apply to any LVD product or only products containing
    radio transmitters?

    Best regards

    Amund

    -
    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
    emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
    e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

    All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
    http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
    
<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.html&data=01%7C01%7CAndy.McCallum%40mottmac.com%7C3897dc1f76c0406b3a9808d5e259910b%7Ca2bed0c459574f73b0c2a811407590fb%7C0&sdata=49%2BsokQ%2Bfgbdw5PdFOVMQq9w5i6xUg%2FynDYiz5MmRso%3D&reserved=0>

    Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities
    site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/
    
<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct-compliance.oc.ieee.org%2F&data=01%7C01%7CAndy.McCallum%40mottmac.com%7C3897dc1f76c0406b3a9808d5e259910b%7Ca2bed0c459574f73b0c2a811407590fb%7C0&sdata=NXnfbl2tReFV%2FOyyCDItpDVpyeZdAnDYXJo2y7%2B2b74%3D&reserved=0>
    can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.

    Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
    
<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2F&data=01%7C01%7CAndy.McCallum%40mottmac.com%7C3897dc1f76c0406b3a9808d5e259910b%7Ca2bed0c459574f73b0c2a811407590fb%7C0&sdata=iF4opy2qXpxGUDSOPjI0JO542mTk9qx9tgUZ8G8KhIE%3D&reserved=0>
    Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
    unsubscribe)
    
<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flist.html&data=01%7C01%7CAndy.McCallum%40mottmac.com%7C3897dc1f76c0406b3a9808d5e259910b%7Ca2bed0c459574f73b0c2a811407590fb%7C0&sdata=clkGQ06wwx8J0uLKatJk2TlwZP%2FLmDxRUJvlWeyFEcA%3D&reserved=0>
    List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
    
<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flistrules.html&data=01%7C01%7CAndy.McCallum%40mottmac.com%7C3897dc1f76c0406b3a9808d5e259910b%7Ca2bed0c459574f73b0c2a811407590fb%7C0&sdata=FfgMUjF4Y7aAu%2F08gj5CE%2BRbAH8ja9RnUj7jRe%2FK7Zg%3D&reserved=0>


    For help, send mail to the list administrators:
    Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
    Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>

    For policy questions, send mail to:
    Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
    David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>

-
----------------------------------------------------------------

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.html&data=01%7C01%7CAndy.McCallum%40mottmac.com%7C3897dc1f76c0406b3a9808d5e259910b%7Ca2bed0c459574f73b0c2a811407590fb%7C0&sdata=49%2BsokQ%2Bfgbdw5PdFOVMQq9w5i6xUg%2FynDYiz5MmRso%3D&reserved=0>

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities 
site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct-compliance.oc.ieee.org%2F&data=01%7C01%7CAndy.McCallum%40mottmac.com%7C3897dc1f76c0406b3a9808d5e259910b%7Ca2bed0c459574f73b0c2a811407590fb%7C0&sdata=NXnfbl2tReFV%2FOyyCDItpDVpyeZdAnDYXJo2y7%2B2b74%3D&reserved=0> 
can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2F&data=01%7C01%7CAndy.McCallum%40mottmac.com%7C3897dc1f76c0406b3a9808d5e259910b%7Ca2bed0c459574f73b0c2a811407590fb%7C0&sdata=iF4opy2qXpxGUDSOPjI0JO542mTk9qx9tgUZ8G8KhIE%3D&reserved=0>
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe) 
<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flist.html&data=01%7C01%7CAndy.McCallum%40mottmac.com%7C3897dc1f76c0406b3a9808d5e259910b%7Ca2bed0c459574f73b0c2a811407590fb%7C0&sdata=clkGQ06wwx8J0uLKatJk2TlwZP%2FLmDxRUJvlWeyFEcA%3D&reserved=0>
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flistrules.html&data=01%7C01%7CAndy.McCallum%40mottmac.com%7C3897dc1f76c0406b3a9808d5e259910b%7Ca2bed0c459574f73b0c2a811407590fb%7C0&sdata=FfgMUjF4Y7aAu%2F08gj5CE%2BRbAH8ja9RnUj7jRe%2FK7Zg%3D&reserved=0> 


For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>

-
----------------------------------------------------------------

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities 
site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for 
graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>

-
----------------------------------------------------------------

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities 
site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for 
graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>

-
----------------------------------------------------------------

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities 
site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for 
graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>



-
----------------------------------------------------------------
This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org>
Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org>

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  <j.bac...@ieee.org>
David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>