Hi Ken and the group, Ken you make very good points! One interesting point. Heart disease and arthritis are, for the most part, nutritional deficiency diseases, easily avoided if one knows what one is doing, which most do not. It is not possible to get adequate amounts of required nutrients, like magnesium for instance, from our modern food. I have used engineering analysis of the published scientific literature to figure out what is lacking and manually add it back in. The result is me at 71 having no problems of aging or medicines, etc. Just the occasional athletic injury which I have encountered most of my life. I run miles and miles at 110 degrees in the desert with no ill effects! If any of you are interested in this, I uploaded years of accumulated information to a hidden directory of my website. It is not organized, just a lot of files. The URL is: http://emcesd.com/Health. Great if you are having insomnia some night. Maybe we will know RF effects in detail like the above at some point. Doug On Thu, 5 Jul 2018 15:20:56 -0500, Ken Javor wrote: The precautionary principle, as harmless and common sense as it sounds, is at the root of much mischief. Said mischief is not inherent in the principle itself, but how it is used. Since anyone can come up with a “what if “scenario, the principle ends up applied indiscriminately. Just as John Woodgate describes, we have in place in the USA laws that prohibit any concentration of certain chemicals. These laws were passed when the ability to see a concentration might have been in the parts per million, but we have progressed to measuring parts per trillion, and the laws haven’t changed. If someone raises the issue of changing the law to allow some concentration above what is measurable, they are labeled as advocating pollution of the water supply, or air or whatever. As is often noted, “the dose is the poison.” Many things which are poison in large quantities are beneficial at lower levels. Aspirin comes to mind. Some time in the early ‘90s the keynote speaker at a US-based IEEE EMC symposium was someone active in EMF effects on health. He went so far as to say that in addition to eliminating EMF due to overhead power lines, and the like, we could not simply hide in a shield room, because our bodies evolved to live in an environment not totally free of EMF, so that totally eliminating them would be as problematical as too much. Consider the “thought” process here. Human beings evolved to survive with a life span of about 35 years. In the Stone Age, by 35 you were a grandparent and arthritis, rheumatism, and the other ills of old age had combined to make you a drag on the tribe. Discovery of Neanderthal man at first had them bent over and “Igor” like. It wasn’t until much later they realized that the skeletons had been ravaged by rheumatism/arthritis. The mistake was made because they could tell these people had died in their thirties, and that was deemed too early for these ills, so that they assumed these people were naturally misshapen. In the USA at the beginning of the 20th century average life expectancy was in the forties. All those cowboys smoking in the old westerns made perfect sense – the last thing those guys expected to die of was emphysema or heart disease or cancer. The original USA social security retirement age of 65 was set to coincide with the mean date of expiration of the human body determined at that time. A policy aimed at improving physical health and longevity but predicated on how we evolved is inherently flawed. Those of us past 35 or so are in uncharted waters as to what does or does not promote or constrain longevity. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: John Woodgate <[email protected]> Reply-To: John Woodgate <[email protected]> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 20:34:07 +0100 To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] EN62311 - Human Exposure to Electromagnetic Fields There is another aspect to this, the 'precautionary principle'. This says that if you don't know the harmful level of something, you reduce its level to ALARP, 'as low as is reasonably practicable'. Unfortunately, of course, opinions differ very widely on what that level is, in many cases. This is why we see concentration limits of parts per trillion, because they are achievable (at a price), not because they are related to known effects. I didn't grow up in strong EM fields, but in a concentration of lead (pipes, paint, cable sheaths) that would be regarded as horrifying now. If that reduced my intellectual capacity, much is explained.:-P John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk <http://www.woodjohn.uk> Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2018-07-05 20:12, John Woodgate wrote: Yes, there are very big 'safety factors' built into the requirements, more in Europe than in USA. Much of the interest in Europe was generated by Scandinavian trades unions concerned about 'radiation' from CRT displays. Adverse health effects of a general nature (headaches, insomnia, general malaise) were very likely much more due to poor working conditions and job interest, but the unions are very powerful. You can't subject people to increasingly strong fields until they show a reaction, it would be highly unethical. John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk <http://www.woodjohn.uk> Rayleigh, Essex UK - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]> David Heald <[email protected]> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]> David Heald <[email protected]> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> David Heald: <[email protected]>
