Hi Ian,
I dont know if you found answers to these yet, or not. But below are my comments [MD]: Michael. From: Schroeder, Ian [mailto:ian.schroe...@dish.com] Sent: 27 November 2018 21:27 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Antenna Colocation test A US only digital device product desires to incorporate various FCC Certified modules that can all transmit simultaneously. All modules are certified as single modular with grant notes stating no co-location. [MD]: Actually these days the more common Grant note is Co-location requires the use of FCC multi-transmitter procedures, because no co-location gives the impression that co-location is not possible. Really it means You cant co-locate until youve done some more work All modules will be used in accordance with their grant notes except for co-location to other transmitters. What FCC Authorization method should be used for the product, SDoC or Certification? [MD]: It depends what the product is. Lets say that the device is some normal mobile device, IT equipment perhaps, then the manufacturer can choose either sDoC or Certification for the authorisation, based on this list: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=5ba272b1b885f2b9d0847458436d2ccc <https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=5ba272b1b885f2b9d0847458436d2ccc&; mc=true&node=se47.1.15_1101&rgn=div8> &mc=true&node=se47.1.15_1101&rgn=div8 If the host also has another transmitter in it, then maybe it must have certification. Is co-location testing of the host the same as FCC 15B testing of the digital device? [MD]: Not quite. FCC Part 15B testing of the digital device is to the limits of 15.109. The modules would be powered, but they do not need to be transmitting. Typically, for example, you would test up to the 5th harmonic of the highest clock in the device, which is probably the modules fundamental frequency (e.g., testing up to 12.5 GHz if its a 2.4 GHz module). The transmitter co-location testing is performed to the transmitter limits, such as 15.209, or -13 dBm e.i.r.p., etc. The transmitters are all on, and transmitting. I would say its not mandatory in most cases to test all channels, all modulations, etc. You can look online at the module test reports, figure out which channel and modulation is worst, and test that one. Of course if you cant control the module, then you may not be able to set the channel. Really, youre just putting all the transmitters on, testing the combined transmitter emissions, to ensure you have not created a monster. This radiated emissions test check is necessary even if you only installed one module, by the way, and is not specific to the co-location issue. Testing would be up to the 10th harmonic of the highest frequency transmitter. If during co-location testing there are signals related to the product digital device portion and not any transmitter (as verified by turning all radios off and disabling their communication path) what limit shall apply? Transmitter spurious limits (say the least/most restrictive) or general 15B limits (A/B depending on product type)? [MD]: I would say you apply the limit of the host, such as 15.109. However, if the device is always transmitting in normal use, so the only function is the transmitter and the emission is under the transmitter limit; I think you could also justify applying that limit. Michael. Ian From: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 12:58 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Antenna Colocation test This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org <mailto:owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org> The RSE requirements are detailed in §2.947(f) A composite system is a system that incorporates different devices contained either in a single enclosure or in separate enclosures connected by wire or cable. If the individual devices in a composite system are subject to different technical standards, each such device must comply with its specific standards. In no event may the measured emissions of the composite system exceed the highest level permitted for an individual component. Testing for compliance with the different standards shall be performed with all of the devices in the system functioning. If the composite system incorporates more than one antenna or other radiating source and these radiating sources are designed to emit at the same time, measurements of conducted and radiated emissions shall be performed with all radiating sources that are to be employed emitting. So a part 15 device needs to comply with part 15, and a part 22 device with part 22, etc. I interpret the clause that I underlined as saying that an intermodulation product, it would only need to comply with the more relaxed limit of the two rule parts for the two transmitters that created it. Now, the engineer in me says that you should fix your design if youre creating intermodulation products, but Im not sure this is address specifically in any rule or KDB Consideration of simultaneous transmissions for SAR are separate and covered under SAR KDBs Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: <https://outlook.hslive.net/owa/redir.aspx?C=02be3bf3e3a544d1bdf7b6c99fbd12f 5&URL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.sulisconsultants.com%2f> www.sulisconsultants.com Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Grasso, Charles <charles.gra...@dish.com <mailto:charles.gra...@dish.com> > Sent: 27 November 2018 19:14 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Antenna Colocation test Hi For an FCC product with multiple xmtrs a colocation test is required (<20cms). What standard are applied for the RE test? 15.209? Charles Grasso W: 303-706-5467 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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