John's comment "e.g. in the rare case where a dated reference standard
is found to be seriously defective." reminded me of an IEC 62368-1:2018
problem caused by a dated reference.
The current IEC 61643-331:2017 is wrong in that an earlier draft
document, instead of the IEC Editors draft was sent for publication.
Heads rolled in SC 37B as a result and SC 37B is working of a
replacement IEC 61643-331. This mishap made the IEC 62368-1:2018
reference "from 8.1.1 of IEC 61643-331, Figure 4." is a misdirection as
8.1.1 doesn't exist in IEC 61643-331:2017. The correct reference for
IEC 61643-331:2017 is "from 8.2.2 of IEC 61643-331, Figure 4." Thinking
about what John said, it seems to me the quickest way of fixing the IEC
62368-1:2018 reference, without invoking TC 108, would be for SC 37B to
issue a clause 8 corrigendum.
Regards
Mick Maytum.
------ Original Message ------
From: "John Woodgate" <j...@woodjohn.uk>
To: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org
Sent: 20/04/2019 08:41:51
Subject: [PSES] Dated and undated references, was: Re: [PSES] Question
re: Measuring a signal in a noisy environment
I changed the Subject, because my comments on the extract below are
much more general.
The heading of Clause 2 (usually the Normative references clause in the
past and now always so) in IEC/EN standards has changed over the years.
and since I see IEC standards being cited without the 60 000 addition
to the number that took place in 1998, I guess that the changes
haven't registered with some people.
This list isn't exhaustive but it illustrates the subject.
Long ago: Mostly undated references with an invitation to 'explore the
use of the latest edition'.
A few years ago: IEC restricted the use of dated references to cases
where a particular clause was cited in the text. Although other dated
references were allowed, IEC editors discouraged that.
Latest: As a result of a legal ruling in Europe, the Commission
requires all references in ENs that are to be notified in the OJ under
a Directive or Regulation to be dated, and IEC committees are mostly
accepting that, as they want their standards to be adopted by CENELEC.
There always has been a lot of misunderstanding on this subject.
Undated references: The essential assumption is that all future
editions will be as equally applicable as the current edition is. There
can be NO guarantee of that, so the committee responsible for the
standard that includes the reference should (but hardly ever does)
review each new edition of undated standards to check that they are
still applicable.
Dated references: In this case, the user of the referencing standard
knows exactly which edition of the referred standard to apply, but can
misguidedly assume that the latest edition should be applied. The
committee responsible for the standard that includes the reference
should (but hardly ever does) review each new edition of dated
standards to check that they are still applicable, and if so, amend the
referencing standard at the earliest reasonable opportunity. It's
obviously unreasonable to issue an amendment when each new edition is
published. Normal maintenance time-scales are sufficient, although
there could be exceptions, e.g. in the rare case where a dated
reference standard is found to be seriously defective.
Best wishes
John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2019-04-19 23:42, Ghery Pettit wrote:
We had a problem in the past where CISPR 24 (Edition 1) called out
(dated reference) an older version of IEC 61000-4-4 than the latest
version. No problem except that the test setup for table top
equipment was different. I audited a lab to put them on the Intel
approved EMC lab list and caught the error. And they had IEC
61000-4-4 on their Scope of Accreditation. Got that problem (now not
a problem with CISPR 24 Edition 2 or CISPR 35) fixed.
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