Doug, I remember seeing the IEEE has opened up some new options for
publishing. I wasn't interested, so I didn't save the info. I do know there
are some open journals along that line.
For Presentations it's easy to approve them based on abstracts before they
are created for a symposium. Papers are a different story. There wouldn't
be enough time for generating the paper for a symposium, if you waited for
the subject to be approved.
As the IEEE uses a double blind review, the content in Explorer is
considered to be of high value and a premium source of information.
The last two PSES Symposiums had more submittials then we had time slots
for, without extending the dead line.
Jim Bacher, WB8VSU
[email protected]
JBRC Consulting LLC
Product EMC & Regulatory Consultant
https://www.trc.guru/ email:[email protected]
IEEE Life Senior Member
On December 9, 2024 3:22:09 PM doug emcesd.com <[email protected]> wrote:
I agree Jim. I love to do demonstrations. I am also happy to see
discussions between reviewers and authors, possibly through a third person
are happening. If we had that on the paper that was rejected, I suspect the
reviewer would have dropped his objection to our paper, which ended up
published in another venue before the EMC Symposium.
In my case I just can't justify writing a paper before it is accepted
because of the significant personal cost. There are lots of other great
symposium that do not require it.
By the way, EMC is only part of what I do as my experience spans many
different areas of science and engineering. Manufacturing engineering,
field problems, bearing lubrication, spacecraft, electric aircraft, and
thermodynamics are a few others of the many areas I get involved with.
Lately I have been advising people on medical issues and have helped many
people now, although I don't charge for helping fellow human beings. I am
leaving a trail of very happy people. Can't publish on that though as I
consider medical science to be an oxymoron, proved to me every day because
of my extensive literature research and experimentation.
I really like DesignCon for their process.
Doug Smith
Sent from my iPhone
IPhone: 408-858-4528
Office: 702-570-6108
Email: [email protected]
Website: http://dsmith.orgFrom: Jim Bacher, WB8VSU <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 9, 2024 9:46:21 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [PSES] experiments as a source of knowledge
Doug, the IEEE does require a double blind review for a IEEE sponsored
symposium to accept a paper. One of the main reasons is it keeps personal
opinions about the author, out of the reviewers opinion of the paper.
Its up to the each Societies conference committee's technical program
committee on how to deal with the blind paper review. You can always
contact the chair of the committee and complain that a reviewer was wrong.
The reviewers are volunteers, so there is always potential issues. The old
system that PSES used for the review process didn't allow discussions
between author and reviewer to occure. I believe the the new system does.
In the case of PSES we need more volunteers to help review papers. I
suspect the same is true for other societies. There are a lot of people on
this list capable of being reviewers, but have not volunteered to do so.
There are a number of authors who only attend symposiums on the day of
their presentation to minimize costs.
One of the reasons to attend such events for a consultant like your self,
is to get exposure to potential customers and other contacts. In fact some
of the guidance I got when I started calling myself a consultant was I need
to go to numerous symposiums and do presentations to get recognition as a
consultant.
As you know you can just do a presentation without doing a paper.
The bulk of my volunteer efforts with the IEEE has been on personal time
and personal expense including the presentations I have done.
Jim Bacher, WB8VSU
[email protected]
JBRC Consulting LLC
Product EMC & Regulatory Consultant
https://www.trc.guru/ email:[email protected]
IEEE Life Senior Member
On December 8, 2024 10:53:36 PM "doug emcesd.com" <[email protected]> wrote:
As an independent engineer, I have to stop work, and income, to write a
paper. An engineer’s time at many companies these days cost $2,000+ per
worked day, so a week taken to develop data and write a paper costs the
company about $20,000. To take a week off to go to the symposium and
present the paper is another $20,000 plus travel expenses.
When I was a young engineer at AT&T Bell Telephone Labs, all engineers were
required to take a one semester course in Engineering Economics run by the
company. That course was one of the most important courses I have ever
taken. Many engineers and low level managers have no idea what their real
costs are. If engineers had to reimburse their company for costs associated
with them, each engineer would have to return all of the salary and more to
the company to "work" there. Participation in IEEE activities is very
expensive to companies.
My personal overhead is lower than for a company engineer, but still
significant. In a normal year, I have need to make $80,000 to cover
expenses! Only worked time pays which is only a fraction of the time I
actually spend in my office and lab. The only way I can justify doing my
own research is that it results in techniques that solve engineering
problems much faster than what is available in the literature, for which my
clients have expressed gratitude. Even one day's delay in a new product
introduction for any reason can cost a company $100,000 or more for each day!
I think if managers understood their costs, the IEEE and other similar
organizations would have a harder time finding people to participate. This
in fact may be happening now as many companies have stopped all
expenditures not directly related to the job at hand. With rising stock
prices as we get into next year this trend hopefully will reverse.
I LOVE engineering and apply it to everything I do. For instance, my study
of thermodynamics and medicine allowed me, at 77 years old last summer, to
run many, many miles at 120°F/49°C in the desert without feeling stressed
or having an elevated heart rate over what normal running would be. If you
are a runner, come to the Mojave Desert where I live next summer and I will
happily show you how to do it.
One of these days I am going to hold a course on how be an athlete in one's
late 70s. My athletic app says I am in the top 1% of all athletes in the
world for mileage run. I would love to share what I have learned, a
relatively straightforward application of engineering principles.
Doug Smith
Sent from my iPhone
IPhone: 408-858-4528
Office: 702-570-6108
Email: [email protected]
Website: http://dsmith.org
From: Brent DeWitt <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2024 7:13:59 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [PSES] experiments as a source of knowledge
Well said Richard. It's not clear why the submittal of a paper
to a journal requires $10k investment. Many of the EMC journal papers come
from university student groups, often led by a mentor. I doubt they
invested that much money.
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Well said Richard. It's not clear why the submittal of a paper to a journal
requires $10k investment. Many of the EMC journal papers come from
university student groups, often led by a mentor. I doubt they invested
that much money.
Respectfully,
Brent DeWitt, AB1LF
IEEE EMC Society Senior Life Member
On 12/8/2024 7:15 PM, Richard Nute wrote:
Hi Doug:
I’ve been doing PowerPoint presentations and formal papers for the IEEE
Product Safety Engineering Society since it was founded. My employers
allowed me to prepare on company time and paid my travel and attendance
expenses. The IEEE/PSES presentation/paper process has not charged me or
my former employer for the presentations/papers. I did get a “best paper”
award in 2013. For this society, there is no IEEE membership pre-requisite
for presentation/paper, although there is a 20% higher attendance fee.
Almost daily, it seems, I get invitations to present papers at some other
IEEE conference and related conferences. None have expenses other than the
charges for attending the conference, which are modest. As these are out
of my field, I ignore them.
In the past, I did some original research (published) while employed. Now
that I’m retired, my “research” is searching and reading published papers
related to a particular subject. I still do presentations and papers.
I disagree with your assertion “the IEEE process makes it excessively
expensive for an independent contributor to write a paper compared to
DesignCon.” Attendance fees for DesignCon 2025 and IEEE PSES ISPCE 2025
are nearly equal.
Richard Nute
IEEE Life Fellow
Bend, Oregon, USA
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