The high end VFDs I've used recommend chokes on the output only if the motor lead runs are hundreds of feet unless the install needs to be super clean RF wise. Input chokes or drive isolation transformers are pretty common for the input, although I have seen a number installed without them. But large high end drives have a lot different economics than a cheap GS1 drive. If the drive costs $5000, few people complain about a $600 input choke.
Dave On 1/28/2016 11:52 AM, Eric Keller wrote: > In my experience, the high-end VFDs also show filters on input and > output. However, the ones I've taken apart seem to have some output > filtering > > On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com> wrote: >> The GS1 and even the GS2 are basic VFDs which do what they say and then >> some. >> I've used them in control boxes with PLCs and PCs but they are usually >> the number 1 noise producers in the panel. >> If you look at their installation instructions they usually include a >> filter on the input of the drive and I believe for European >> installations they say that >> an output filter/choke is required to meet European requirements. >> That makes the inexpensive GS drives not so inexpensive after all of the >> filters are installed. >> On the otherhand, I have used the GS2 drives on some standalone >> installations without a PLC or PC nearby and they have worked fine >> without complications. However, YMMV. >> The built in PID loop along with a dancer arm and pot can make for a >> really cheap unwinder for reeled products, like rubber extrusions etc. >> Andy doesn't miss much. I wonder if he is good at picking lottery >> ticket numbers?? ;-) >> >> Dave >> >> On 1/28/2016 9:14 AM, Jim Craig wrote: >>> An update and semi success story. >>> >>> After dinking with the noise from the GS1 VFD for way to many hours. I >>> was finally able to get rid of the noise. I removed the drive. I put in >>> a run capacitor and have the coolant pump running off the original >>> contactor. I wound up using a 3uf capacitor. I tried a 2uf and it ran >>> but it ran smoother with a 3uf. >>> >>> I can run the machine will all features running and I don't have any >>> noise at all. >>> >>> Based on my experience I would not recommend the GS1 drive at all. >>> However if you have a need for a 1/4hp VFD let me know. I have one I >>> will sell cheap. >>> >>> Thanks for all of the advice. >>> >>> Andy, Does it hurt to be right all the time? LOL! >>> >>> Later, >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> On 1/23/2016 6:22 AM, Dave Cole wrote: >>>> You don't need to disconnect the shields at one end on the power >>>> conductor shields. >>>> Those are normally connected at each end. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> On 1/22/2016 5:23 PM, Jim Craig wrote: >>>>> I spent all afternoon looking for and trying to remove ground loops. I >>>>> think I found all that I can eliminate. I have a couple minor ones due >>>>> to the mounting of my PC motherboard/SSD that I don't think I can remove >>>>> without making new mounting fixtures. >>>>> >>>>> I did find one that I was sure was going to fix the issue. My encoder >>>>> breakout board that converts the honda connectors to RJ45 connectors had >>>>> the power ground going to chassis ground due to the mounting bolts. I >>>>> fixed that and removed that ground loop. I was sure that would fix the >>>>> issue but it did not. >>>>> >>>>> Also the shields on the servo motor power cables are grounded at both >>>>> ends in the motor and at the drive side. I disconnected the drive side. >>>>> I am not sure if this is a good idea or not as It could pose a safety >>>>> hazard. >>>>> >>>>> And for everyone's information the encoder cables are shielded, shields >>>>> grounded at the control board only, the signals are differential and I >>>>> am STILL having this issue. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway after all of this the noise is still present when running the GS1 >>>>> drive for the coolant pump. I think I will try to source a run capacitor >>>>> and switch back to a contactor for start stop on the coolant pump. >>>>> >>>>> The filter that I am using on the GS1 drive is a Tyco Corcom 5VB1. I >>>>> don't have an operating scope to look at the noise on the lines. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the feedback everyone. Should have listened to Andy 6 months >>>>> ago and went with the run capacitor then! ; ) : ( >>>>> >>>>> Jim >>>>> >>>>> On 1/22/2016 3:52 PM, Dave Cole wrote: >>>>>> Are you using decent filters?? >>>>>> >>>>>> GS1 and GS2 drives tend to pump a lot of RF noise up the power supply >>>>>> line. >>>>>> I've used the AD filters with good success. I think the one I used was >>>>>> about $80. >>>>>> If you are using cheap Ebay filters.... sometimes you get what you pay >>>>>> for. >>>>>> >>>>>> Have you put a scope on your AC lines to see if the filters are >>>>>> effective?? I suspect they are not. >>>>>> Re-routing your drive to motor leads is also sometimes effective. Keep >>>>>> them as far away from low voltage wiring as possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> On 1/22/2016 12:51 PM, Jim Craig wrote: >>>>>>> Hey all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have been troubleshooting some noise that I have on my servo encoders. >>>>>>> I have isolated the noise source to be the 1/4hp Automation Direct GS1 >>>>>>> VFD that I have running my coolant pump. If the coolant pump is not >>>>>>> running then there is no noise on the encoders and the machine maintains >>>>>>> correct positioning. If I turn the coolant pump on then the encoders get >>>>>>> false signal that in turn changes where the machine thinks it is. This >>>>>>> problem showed up immediately after I retrofitted the machine this last >>>>>>> summer. I have just now been able to diagnose where the issue is >>>>>>> originating. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In attempts to improve the situation I have done the following. >>>>>>> Installed EMI filters on the supply lines to both the >>>>>>> coolant and >>>>>>> spindle vfds. >>>>>>> worked on ground system to try to isolate the noise. >>>>>>> rerouted the coolant pump motor power cable completely away >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> any other cables and completely away from the machine. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All of these things have failed to improve the noise issue. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I also tried the following to try and diagnose the issue. I disconnected >>>>>>> the coolant pump motor cable from the coolant pump vfd. Disconnected the >>>>>>> spindle motor from the spindle vfd. Connected the coolant pump to the >>>>>>> spindle vfd. Note that the spindle vfd is a 3.0hp Automation direct GS2 >>>>>>> drive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When I did this and ran the coolant pump via the spindle vfd there was >>>>>>> no noise on the encoders. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does anyone have any ideas on how to get rid of this issue. I really >>>>>>> want to make some parts but I can't with the noise issue. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I talked to a EE buddy of mine and he mentioned running both motors >>>>>>> (spindle and coolant pump) off the same 3.0hp GS2 drive just to get me >>>>>>> going. What do you think about this? Will running two different sized >>>>>>> motors on the same VFD cause any issue. Right now I don't run my spindle >>>>>>> in reverse so I would not have any trouble with the coolant pump running >>>>>>> backwards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I talked to Automation Direct and they said that the GS1 is more prone >>>>>>> to noise than the GS2. I am contemplating getting a 1/2hp GS2 to replace >>>>>>> the GS1. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So frustrated right now. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Let me know if you have any ideas. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance >>>>>>> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month >>>>>>> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now >>>>>>> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. 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