----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
"Couldn't the word accident be used instead of "involuntary" which seems to
travel closely with its antonym voluntary? Accidents happen with the best
of planning but as AS noted below, sometimes artists choose to keep the
accident and integrate it. Accidents can arrive from within the artist but
equally, they can happen from just about anywhere outside the head -- the
accidentally spilled ink, the wrong key tapped, the light changing due to a
passing cloud, someone calling for your attention in the midst of making
creating a moment of inattention with consequences. Accepting imperfection
lies at the heart of Japanese aesthetics called wabi-sabi."
Hi Christina,
I would go even one step further and call it "defect" or "the insufficiency
of the medium." For instance, in some 19th century photographs, the most
resonant spots are double e4xposures, blurred faces (due to the sudden
movement of the subject before the lens), etc.
Ciao,
Murat
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 10:50 AM, Christina Spiesel <
christina.spie...@yale.edu> wrote:
> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
> Couldn't the word accident be used instead of "involuntary" which seems to
> travel closely with its antonym voluntary? Accidents happen with the best
> of planning but as AS noted below, sometimes artists choose to keep the
> accident and integrate it. Accidents can arrive from within the artist but
> equally, they can happen from just about anywhere outside the head -- the
> accidentally spilled ink, the wrong key tapped, the light changing due to a
> passing cloud, someone calling for your attention in the midst of making
> creating a moment of inattention with consequences. Accepting imperfection
> lies at the heart of Japanese aesthetics called wabi-sabi.
>
> CS
>
> On 7/17/2015 5:23 AM, aslem...@free.fr wrote:
>
>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>> Hi Murat
>>
>> in fact it can be made involuntary and kept afterwards voluntary, no ?
>> - as in painting -
>> you make a voluntary decision after having seen something, or after
>> having made something involuntary
>>
>> 'bad painting' was made bad on purpose
>> even F. Bacon voluntary threw dirty sponge on his paintings sometimes -
>> as far as I know
>>
>> all resides in the context of the word meaning. technically non perfect
>> or artistically non perfect
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> as
>> ----- Mail original -----
>> De: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" <mura...@gmail.com>
>> À: "soft_skinned_space" <empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au>
>> Envoyé: Mercredi 15 Juillet 2015 18:32:51
>> Objet: Re: [-empyre-] aslemeur, experimental 3D image, Moscow, July 2015
>>
>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>> Hi Anne-Sarah,
>>
>> I wonder if such a thing as "voluntary imperfection" exists, ambiguous or
>> otherwise. First, if it is voluntary, it is not an imperfection. Second,
>> doesn't imperfection imply a loss of control on the maker's side? In
>> another context (in the essay "Questions of Accent") I describe this as
>> one
>> being "unable to hear his or her own accent."
>>
>> Ciao,
>> Murat
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 4:54 AM, <aslem...@free.fr> wrote:
>>
>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> - If I make a programming mistake, then the program would not work. too
>>> bad.
>>> - I can make a 'thinking' programming mistake (I think I code this order,
>>> but in fact I am coding something else)
>>> then it works, but not as I thought it would. Should I keep that offer or
>>> not ?
>>> It probably depends on the artistic aspect it brings ?
>>>
>>> here what I like is that the 'thinking' programming mistake - that I very
>>> often do- are generating artistic visual ... elements,
>>> unpredicted, surprising, that can enrich the work
>>> (conceptualy/visualy...)
>>>
>>> it can appear as technical mistake to the viewer (or not). depends on the
>>> level of irreverence/disobedience to the system and its appeal to
>>> perfection this element includes. or depends too on the artistic element
>>> it
>>> brings.
>>> I like to be inbetween. so the viewer can ask him/herself if what he/she
>>> perceives is 'normal'
>>>
>>> I wonder what tecnological art pieces demonstrate voluntary ambivalent
>>> imperfections...
>>> and if 'unfinished' technological art pieces are shown ?
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Anne-Sarah
>>> ----- Mail original -----
>>> De: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" <mura...@gmail.com>
>>> À: "soft_skinned_space" <empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au>
>>> Envoyé: Mardi 14 Juillet 2015 22:07:07
>>> Objet: Re: [-empyre-] aslemeur, experimental 3D image, Moscow, July 2015
>>>
>>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>>> Hi Horea,
>>>
>>> Actually, we are agreeing. The human (in this instance the artist's)
>>> inability to control the medium (which the human mind may project as a
>>> failure of the machine} is exactly what is liberating. With no conscious
>>> will or intention of the user, it enables the user to transgress the
>>> logical system, exigencies the machines creates around itself. In one
>>> sense, the machine "makes a mistakes." In another sense, the machine has
>>> abilities beyond the human ones.
>>>
>>> I talk in detail about the importance of the "inefficiences" of the
>>> technological medium in the creation of art discussing 19th century
>>> photographic light in my book *The Peripheral Space of Photography (Los
>>> Angeles: *Green Integer, 2004*).* In an earlier discussion a few months
>>> ago
>>> here, I referred to an interview with the film maker Renoir where he
>>> talks
>>> about the importance of defects in technology in fil (and art in
>>> general).
>>> The interview is on utube.
>>>
>>> Ciao,
>>> Murat
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 7:28 AM, Horea Avram <horea.av...@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>>>> Hi Murat and Anne-Sarah,
>>>>
>>>> I also believe that it is crucial to define what a "mistake" might be in
>>>> the context of machines or dispositifs.
>>>> Is the "technological being" (i.e. the machine/dispositif) able to make
>>>> mistakes? Or mistakes are entirely human being's responsibility?
>>>>
>>>> I think mistakes are not liberation from machines (and here I disagree
>>>> with Murat), but they are intrinsic part of the machines.
>>>> And by mistakes I mean those technical shortcomings and imperfections in
>>>> the interaction process, those delays in what should be a real-time
>>>>
>>> system,
>>>
>>>> those real-virtual registration and superimposition errors, especially
>>>> in
>>>> Augmented Reality and ubiquitous computing devices and applications,
>>>> etc.
>>>> These "mistakes", as I see them, not only permit the system function (of
>>>> course within an estimated and acceptable error range), but they can be
>>>> seen as a distinctive aesthetic aspect of the technological medium
>>>> (whatever that is). These flaws can be assumed (especially in artistic
>>>> projects) as the artist's "trace," or as the tool's "stroke" that can
>>>> reflect the attributes of the medium(s), the unique play between the
>>>> accuracy of the machine and our subjective actions, between the
>>>> transparency of the medium and its reflexive strategy (the flawless
>>>>
>>> machine
>>>
>>>> vs. the subjective, "emotional" machine).
>>>> Isn't this an aspect of the intersubjectivity human-machine/dispositif?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Horea
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 12:27 PM, <aslem...@free.fr> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>>>>> Hi Murat
>>>>>
>>>>> so people here are reading extra messages... with links !
>>>>> good to know !!
>>>>>
>>>>> thank you for your note.
>>>>> I guess I have to define what is a 'mistake' :
>>>>> mistake in my understanding of how to program my interactive rules ?
>>>>> and more seemingly mistake in the eyes of the viewer...
>>>>> when the logic seems not logical 'enough'...
>>>>>
>>>>> I will read Cocteau again...
>>>>>
>>>>> Have a nice week,
>>>>>
>>>>> Anne-Sarah
>>>>> ----- Mail original -----
>>>>> De: "Murat Nemet-Nejat" <mura...@gmail.com>
>>>>> À: "soft_skinned_space" <empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au>
>>>>> Envoyé: Samedi 11 Juillet 2015 23:21:38
>>>>> Objet: Re: [-empyre-] aslemeur, experimental 3D image, Moscow, July
>>>>> 2015
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>>>>> Hi Anne-Sarah,
>>>>>
>>>>> Mistakes are liberation from machines. If you can make a machine make a
>>>>> mistake, it seems you are liberating yourself from it-- as Cocteau's
>>>>> infernal machine implies.
>>>>> Ciao,
>>>>> Murat
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 5:07 AM, <aslem...@free.fr> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------empyre- soft-skinned space----------------------
>>>>>> Hello !
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone in Moscow ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am presenting my interactive cylindrical piece, Beyond-Round, in
>>>>>>
>>>>> RuArts
>>>>>
>>>>>> Gallery, until 31th of July,
>>>>>> To Look at and To See, french-russian group exhibition,
>>>>>> with Guillaume Guérin, Christian Lebrat, Alexandra Mitlyanskaya, and
>>>>>> Natalia Smolianskaïa (and myself).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.facebook.com_ruartsgallery&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=q0krq9m4fZgsWdRS4GeYCTtVDSLngZdLpiAr88JN8FU&e=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.facebook.com_ruartsgallery_photos_pcb.10154194139743475_10154194138083475_-3Ftype-3D1-26theater&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=F6duQs4LsUxXieaKfLjCM7gAGcCKDbfplHq4cRgFsgY&e=
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.facebook.com_ruartsgallery_photos_a.10152820709668475.1073741837.370920953474_10154189485038475_-3Ftype-3D1-26theater&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=VgmWzt0etrVz-UV-SSxYGMxCfgmzCzLcSTdfBaBj2Xw&e=
>>>
>>>> TV report :
>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mir24.tv_video_12892691&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=pTslIlBBaEgguTfReevz5gdia-CTm-1EFuu2BgHTc6w&e=
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Beyond-Round (2000 - 2012) is a perception labroratory, where the
>>>>>> spectator is experimenting lack of vision and loss of power, untill
>>>>>>
>>>>> s/he
>>>
>>>> finally understands that the interactive moving image has to be
>>>>>>
>>>>> <<tamed>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> to be looked at. (I am using peripheral vision and slowness as key
>>>>>>
>>>>> elements)
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__aslemeur.free.fr_projets_outre-5Fr-5Feng.htm&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=pu97e-h8PTe2OXLuBSpnTq7qb3jSROxPnADUDT9OCSQ&e=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www02.zkm.de_videocast_index.php_aktuell_440-2Danne-2Dsarahlemeurbeyondround.html&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=OL_sXsJ27_-O9tO6Qu73jnohdyLVTkUekYyHtQdcTdY&e=
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__vimeo.com_44651679&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=bqlEidWCuyVQ8Zp5gIgFcK64JaTq9UPZ0cP0maWQEOM&e=
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and will have a artist talk at Fabrika :
>>>>>> friday 17.07, 4:00-5:30 PM, Artist Talk Anne-Sarah Le Meur, French
>>>>>> animation Festival, Fabrika
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.proektfabrika.ru_&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=j0Gn6T_iidISp6HoX8YTOlo5EeEtG-LEFNcVGJ_jMBo&e=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.proektfabrika.ru_-23events_artist-2Dtalk-2Dc-2Dann-2Dsara-2Dle-2Dmerquothudozhnica-2Dv-2Drezidenciiquot-2Dcti-2Dfabrika&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=Hfrg846_McVmxeUGbPe7UCsIEnRwWjfTXR1HGCxecbU&e=
>>>
>>>> I will speak on the influence of painting and programming language on
>>>>>> generated 3D images and will present my exploration of unconventional
>>>>>>
>>>>> 3D
>>>
>>>> images.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would be happy to meet anyone there, or for any occasion somewhere
>>>>>>
>>>>> else
>>>>>
>>>>>> in Moscow,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anne-Sarah Le Meur
>>>>>> Artist, Assistant Professor, Pantheon-Sorbonne Paris 1 University
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__aslemeur.free.fr_projets_agenda-5Feng.htm&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=f9_F1c6NaL2HBkFh8kl1PYD8-V950Pd_0LLGrEBIIYc&e=
>>>>>> **********************************************************************
>>>>>> Anne-Sarah Le Meur is represented by Charlot Gallery, Paris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.galeriecharlot.com_fr_39_Anne-2DSarah-2DLe-2DMeur&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=i6HJ_Y-a_alnodakPfu-Q0m3sdiRdF-gpXk85mAmrPI&e=
>>>>>> **********************************************************************
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> empyre forum
>>>>>> empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__empyre.library.cornell.edu&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=cWBpR6TxhYf4i85z_KseQqlcZ5UgJiMQH9U5ausE9dk&e=
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> empyre forum
>>>>> empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au
>>>>>
>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__empyre.library.cornell.edu&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=cWBpR6TxhYf4i85z_KseQqlcZ5UgJiMQH9U5ausE9dk&e=
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> empyre forum
>>>>> empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au
>>>>>
>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__empyre.library.cornell.edu&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=cWBpR6TxhYf4i85z_KseQqlcZ5UgJiMQH9U5ausE9dk&e=
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> empyre forum
>>>> empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au
>>>>
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__empyre.library.cornell.edu&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=cWBpR6TxhYf4i85z_KseQqlcZ5UgJiMQH9U5ausE9dk&e=
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> empyre forum
>>> empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__empyre.library.cornell.edu&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=cWBpR6TxhYf4i85z_KseQqlcZ5UgJiMQH9U5ausE9dk&e=
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> empyre forum
>>> empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__empyre.library.cornell.edu&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=cWBpR6TxhYf4i85z_KseQqlcZ5UgJiMQH9U5ausE9dk&e=
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> empyre forum
>> empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au
>>
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__empyre.library.cornell.edu&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=cWBpR6TxhYf4i85z_KseQqlcZ5UgJiMQH9U5ausE9dk&e=
>> _______________________________________________
>> empyre forum
>> empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au
>>
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__empyre.library.cornell.edu&d=AwIGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=rMhkFzJJd1Ylr7YtWAk9EZ8kWeBgJWGU9szcRcCgZ6Y&m=D4GBP2oFFZi_QPrHcETp08ZTrylsIwsA78MzKHnX-nc&s=cWBpR6TxhYf4i85z_KseQqlcZ5UgJiMQH9U5ausE9dk&e=
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> empyre forum
> empyre@lists.artdesign.unsw.edu.au
> http://empyre.library.cornell.edu
>
_______________________________________________
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