On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 7:22 PM, Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com>
wrote:

> On Thu, 02 Apr 2015 16:20:38 +0200 Jonathan Aquilina <
> jaquil...@eagleeyet.net>
> said:
>
> > Not working in what sense? I would be up for looking into the issues and
> > getting things working with proper documentation through doxygen. Since
> > my programming know how that is needed for E is non existent.
>
> make doc (run a doxygen build run) across efl and elm take like ~2-5mins
> ...
> thats  about as long - even longer than compiling efl and elementary.
> doxygen
> has to do a FULL rebuild. it can't do a partial. that means turn-around
> time
> between you edited docs in src and seeing what they come out as is way too
> long. it should be no more than a few seconds.
>
> the docs somehow end up with mountains of the docs simply inaccessible.
> they
> are there but unlinked from master pages so navigating to them is basically
> impossible - and fixing it as above is a journey in such frustration that
> you
> give up.


This was me last year.  I got about half way through trying to clean up
eina docs
before I gave up.  Too much frustration and too many "Where did Doxygen put
the effing doc I just wrote?" moments.


>
>
i dislike that doxygen just splats everything in a class (group) and all
> api's
> on a single page ... in whatever order it feels like. long ago in the early
> days of evas - back in 2001 or so i wrote a 200 page document on al of
> evas. i
> put 1 api call per page. it was neater and people actually liked the docs.
> never since has anyone liked the doxygen docs.
>
> the styling is ... bad. and hard to improve and customize further.
>

I will not defend Doxygen, because I hate it so, but the splatting and
formatting
can be fixed with different grouping and custom html/css.  Many of the
problems
with the current docs are caused by Doxygen's group=page mentality and its
linking (or not) policy.


> no idea how to make doxygen properly link elm and efl docs - so when you
> have
> evas_object_del() in elm docs - it points to the efl docs. it just is
> totally
> unlinked as the doc build is separate from efl. without a src tree merge i
> just
> don't see this working. also as long as doc builds are part of src - they
> are
> separate entites but efl is seen as efl + elementary by develoeprs and they
> complain bitterly if our docs are not unified as a single entity. in fact
> all
> our existing efl docs pretty much assume ecore is separate to eina is
> separate
> to evas is separate to ecore_evas is separate to edje etc because that is
> just
> how they always have been. it's time we stop that because people just don't
> like it.
>
> doxygen doesn't understand eo. it can't. it doesn't understand OO in C. it
> doesn't grok eo inheritance. we would have to fake generate pretend oo
> docs for
> C (some .h files with groups pretending to be classes, and hand-done
> comments
> and links on inheritance). it also doesn't understand events within our eo
> oo setup - that objects inherit events from parent classes.
>
> and frankly developers simply aren't writing docs. if we keep docs in src
> then
> only devs can write them, and devs don't, so we will NEVER have docs .. by
> definition. i want to split docs out from the src in a way that means we
> don't
> have long build times. so dedicated tech writers/documentation people can
> easily work on them. it won't be hard to make tools to import markdown
> templates from the .eo files and thus add new classes, events, methods as
> they
> appear (with empty docs), then to be filled in with fast feedback.
>
>
Yep!  :-)

Docs should have their own tree, not mixed in with the source code.  Docs
should be a first-class project and be managed that way.  Devs don't write
(mostly) and writers don't dev (mostly), so just ack that fact and
create a space where the doc folks can do their work and not get in the way.

I've been working (slowly) on converting things over to Docbook on my
local.  When
I have something that works I will make it available on git so we have
something
to talk about.

I chose Docbook because it's a standard and other large projects use it, but
if markdown is chosen for doc source, so be it.

-- Jeff Grimshaw
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