Jess: Thanks for getting ahead on this. Textbook of Wood Tech is a great reference but I was hoping more would be available. I think one of our retired profs here at Clemson will find this a challenge. I do see a lot of sanding but we still have a functional wood shop although no staff to support it anymore. Good to hear about all the interest and ideas. Vic .
________________________________ From: [email protected] on behalf of Jess Riddle Sent: Wed 7/15/2009 8:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [ENTS] Re: Middleton Oak "cookie" status Vic, Ed, Larry, all; I'm excited to year that we're going to get good age data fro one of the really large live oaks. How many years will be missed my using a limb depends on the trees early growth rate. If the tree started out in a heavily shaded environment many year might be missing, but if the tree started in an open environment only a few years would be missing. I don't know how shade tolerant live oak is, which would help estimate the maximum number of rings that could be missing. The width of the innermost rings should be somewhat informative also. I did some digging for information on live oak rings, but did not come up with much. The Bibliography of Dendrochronology only had one article involving live oak, which didn't look very relevant, and no articles on related species (coast, canyon, interior, and sand live oaks). A more general literature search also turned up nothing. The one bit of info I did find was from Brown, Pashin, and Forsaith's Textbook of Wood Technology. About live oak it states "Growth rings scarcely distinct, delineated by a faint narrow line of darker (denser) fibrous tissue at the outer margin. Pores barely visible to the naked eye...[pores] in the early springwood usually somewhat larger but the transition in pore size from spring- to summerwood gradual." So the ring structure is not like more temperate oaks. Sounds like someone may have to schedule a couple days of sanding to really see the rings. Jess On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Edward Frank<[email protected]> wrote: > Vic, This is great news! I tried really hard from afar to get somebody to > go down and look at the epiphytes growing on the branch when it fell. I > even offered some local types to pay for gas money. I had one taker, but > they never made. I encouraged the Middleton people to have the cookie cut > and I am glad they did. I am extremely interested in the ring count. I have > not read anywhere about live oaks having a particular problem with false > rings, or even very much about any real attempts to age date the species. > Larry Tucei and others have commented on how hard the wood is and the great > difficulty (to almost impossibility of coring some of them) ad the the > problems cutting cookies from them even with a chainsaw. I definitely want > to see the numbers you get. Do you have more references about ring counting > live oaks you could send me? > > Did you see the email from Pete Saussy: (July 14, 2009) > > dear Ents: i am a resident of the landside of Pawleys Island, SC with a very > large specimen in my back yard and neighbor to two trees bearing SC live oak > society signs on Rybolt Rd. i am interested in any information concerning > these ancients. as you may know the huge horizontal limb at Litchfield > by;theSea entrance has fallen and been cut loose, visible from Hwy 17 > pete saussy > 116 safe harbor ave > pawleys island sc 29585 > > Thanks for everything. > > Ed Frank > > "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. > It is the source of all true art and all science." - Albert Einstein > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Victor Shelburne > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 9:18 AM > Subject: [ENTS] Middleton Oak "cookie" status > > ENTS: > > > > FYI, I have FINALLY located the Middleton oak "cookie" (in South > Carolina-our largest State Champion-most points) that was cut from a large > limb after it (the limb-not the tree) fell last August. Bartlett Tree in > Charleston, SC has it in their shop. Just need to transport the 3 foot plus > diameter cookie (4-6 inches thick) up here to Clemson University so we can > attempt some tree ring analysis (despite the problem of false rings in live > oaks). It is a solid piece (no rot) so It should give us some idea of tree > age in any case. Bartlett also has pictures of the limb relative to height > so that might also help in estimating age since obviously the limb is > younger than the tree. > > > > Anyone else interested in this let me know. > > > > > > Vic Shelburne > > SC Big Tree Coordinator > > Clemson University > > > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Edward Frank > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 7:51 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [ENTS] Re: Middleton Oak > > > > Tyler, > > > > I tried very hard to get someone to go and look at the epiphytes on the > Middleton oak when a large limb broke off last spring. I had one person say > they would do it and they never showed up. Henry Grissino-Meyer at > Tennessee said he would be happy to do a formal ring count on the limb. > Middleton Place cut a cookie for that purpose, but as far as I know nobody > ever took it to Henry for counting. SC is a long drive from PA, so I could > not do it myself. If anyone wants to volunteer. I still have the contact > information for everyone here. > > > > Ed > > > > > > Join me at the Primal Forests - Ancient Trees Community at: > http://primalforests.ning.com/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Tyler > > To: ENTSTrees > > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 4:06 PM > > Subject: [ENTS] Middleton Oak > > > > Just wondering if anyone has heard any news on the Middleton Oak. Was > a ring count done on any of the limbs?<BR > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
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