Mike, Paul: Red pine does best on rocky soils of the Canadian Shield and also sandy outwash plains. It reaches optimum development (in terms of dominance of the forest, not size of biggest tree) in north central MN. I don't believe what the dendrology text says about red pine taking over white pine sites and jack pine taking over red pine sites. All three pines can grow on sites occupied by the other species. Dominance by any given pine species depends more on seed source and seed bed conditions right after disturbance than site quality.
Large scale red pine regeneration occurs after extremely intense wildfires. The seeds from the few surviving trees travel long distances on the wind across the open landscape after severe fires. This explains the occasional red pine tree found within other forest types--there is always a small chance of a shade intolerant species finding the right spot in a gap within more mesic forest types. We have a research project on thi in the Ham Lake fire and other recent fires in northern MN. Currenty, red pine regeneration is being wiped out in the Lake States by the Diplodia blight in most places. The only places with large-scale survival of seedlings is in far northern MN, where seedlings are hundreds of feet or more away from the mother tree (adult trees carry the fungus but are not killed by it, so they infect nearby offspring). It may also be too cold for Diplodia in northern MN. I may not be able to contribute further to this discussion until I get back to MN on Spet. 5. I am visiting the Polish Academy of Sciences Institute of Dendrology now and have a presentation on Range of natural varaiability in boreal forests at the European Congress of Conservation Biology in Prague later this week. E-mail access is intermittent. Lee On Aug 29 2009, Mike Leonard wrote: >Paul, > >The principle range of red pine is supposed to be around the Lake States >but perhaps it does better in southern Michigan and Wisconsin? Although >in my textbook of dendrology it says that the best development of red >pine was made in the upper Great Lakes region. In addition it says: "On >light sandy soils too poor for white pine, red pine grew in abundance, >and on the better sites was mixed with the former species; occasional >trees, often of large size, were found in hardwood mixtures on heavier >soils. Following logging and fire, much of the land which had supported >red pine became too poor for anything but jack pine, which over large >areas established itself as a pioneer tree. In a similar way, red pine >occupied former eastern white pine land." > >Red pine is rather intolerant of shade - more tolerant than jack pine >but much less tolerant than white pine. >I wonder why you couldn't find the seed trees of the red pine >regeneration you noted. Perhaps squirrels carried off some pine cones? > >Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Jost > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:25 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [ENTS] Re: Mt Tom and red pines > > Mike, > > My recollection of natural red pine regeneration in far >northern Wisconsin and the upper peninsula of Michigan is limited. It >tends to be uncommon outside of plantations. It is found on rocky >sites, gets established high up on washed out or collapsed river banks, >along logging skid paths, along roadsides, and areas susceptible to >fire. When I do find red pine regeneration, it is often difficult to >find the seed trees. They may end up high on ridges or hills up wind as >much as a mile away, depending on topography. I suspect the really >distant ones are animal dispersed, primarily by birds. > > Paul > On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Mike Leonard ><[email protected]> wrote: > Bob, > In this area, you almost never see red pine >seedling/sapling regeneration. The only places I have seen it under >plantations are a few areas where there is just a strip of red pine with >a lot of sunlight getting through and there is absolutely no understory >competition. Did you note any red pine seedling regeneration on Mt. Tom? >What does it take to facilitate red pine regeneration? Fire to kill off >the competition and exposing mineral soil? Does native red pine in MA >only occur on the poor growing sites like Mt. Tom? While declining red >pine plantations should have some silvicultural treatment, native red >pine is pretty rare in this state so it's probably a good idea to >protect these sites. > When I marked a 40 acre lot in Petersham last year I >noted 4 pole size red pines (6-12 inches in DBH). Three of the red pines >were blown part way over and had grown banana shaped probably from the >1938 hurricane. The fourth one was relatively straight and had a decent >crown so I left that and marked the other 3 that were on the way out. >Could these have been native red pine or did they seed in from the >nearby plantation that's on Harvard Forest land? Well that's about 100 >yards away so I don't know. I'll have to go back there and try and date >those trees now to see if they predate the plantation era (1930's). > I like red pine. The bark is extremely attractive but >unfortunately red pine is highly susceptible to severe snow and ice >damage. > Every once in a while I'll see a decent solitary red >pine in the middle of a mixed stand and wonder how the heck did this >tree get here? Would someone plant a single red pine tree way back when >the old farm was abandoned? There are many other anomalies I see in the >woods which makes my job interesting! > Mike > www.northquabbinforestry.com > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:04 PM > To: [email protected] > Cc: Belchetz-Swenson, Sarah; Blaich, >Tanya; CAMPANILE, ROBERT; Carr, Robert; Davis, John; Dittmer, Paul; >Duke, Carol; Gilmour, Carol; Heller, Sharl; Hurley, Claudia; Kaiser, >Amy; Loomis, Rob ; Matteson, Mollie; Ricci, Heidi; Ryan, Mike; Seale, >Doug; Stahle, David; Weiss, Nancy; Weil, Phoebe; Zelazo, Timothy; Neil, >Rick > Subject: [ENTS] Mt Tom and red pines > ENTS, > Yesterday, Monica and I took a >friend for a walk on the Metacomet-Monadnock Trail along the basalt >cliffs of Mount Tom in the Connecticut River Valley. Mount Tom is >volcanic and is known for its diversity. I will forego the usual deluge >of statistics and go right to the hike. The climb up onto the ledges is >fairly steep, but worth every ounce of sweat. The great majority of >hikers go to the cliff region of Mount Tom for the views. So do I, but >also for the vegetation and one species in particular, red pine. > Image#1-RdPinesLineUp.jpg: This image >shows red pines along the Metacomet-Monadnock Trail. These are the first >pines you see when intercepting the Metacomet-Monadnock Trail from the >Quarry Trail, which is north of Whiting Peak. > Image#2-RedPinesAreBeautiful.jpg: This >image looks looks down through a cluster of red pines into the valley >below. > Image#3-RedPinesAndSnag.jpg: The red >pine strip goes for half a mile or more with intermittent pines hugging >the basalt ledges. There is a little regeneration. > Image#4-Guardians2.jpg: This is another >view of the cluster. Very photogenic. > In addition to the old red >pines, the basalt formation is photogenic. Take red and white pines, >basalt ledges, and the valley beyond and Mount Tom becomes a >photographer's bonanza. > Image#5-BasaltAndValley.jpg: The basalt >formations stand in bold relief to the valley and Berkshire Hills >beyond. > Image#6-BasaltAndValley2.jpg: This image >shows the surface structure of the basalt. > Bob > > > > > > > > >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ >Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org >Send email to [email protected] >Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en >To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] >-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
