Randy, The article specifically mentions that both electrodes are made of the same metal. So, this is not a battery type of reaction, as in the potato batteries with dissimilar metal electrodes. The mechanisms are not alike.
Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy Brown To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:43 PM Subject: [ENTS] Re: tree power!!! Remember potato batteries? This site claims 880 millivolts. http://www.science-projects-resources.com/how-to-make-a-potato-battery.html On Sep 10, 2009, at 4:59 PM, Paul Jost wrote: A couple of hundred millivolts at microamp levels or less from a tree seems very reasonable. Low potential energy and charge storage is present in anything with unbalanced ion concentrations. Maybe ionic charge could be a force that helps with sap flow up the world's tallest trees? Only one of a kind custom semiconductors can run off that minute of an energy source and they spend most of their time trickle charging the input capacitor and then coming out of sleep/standby mode only briefly before shutting down again for a proportionately long time. It is unlikely that any real commercial application could be derived from this for at least several years. PJ On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 3:34 PM, DON BERTOLETTE <[email protected]> wrote: Steve- In rereading the initial post below, "A study last year from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology found that plants generate a voltage of up to 200 millivolts when one electrode is placed in a plant and the other in the surrounding soil." it seems that indeed, the electricity is of little magnitude, effective perhaps only in nano-technology and even more speculatively, as a measure of tree health. It's this last item that held my interest! -Don -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: [ENTS] Re: tree power!!! Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:52:44 -0500 From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; [email protected] Pardon my skepticism here about this...trees can be conductors of electricity (dangers of power line contact; also lightning strike patterns) but I'm a little skeptical regarding the sustainable transmission of electricity of any magnitude. Steve Springer -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: [email protected] on behalf of DON BERTOLETTE Sent: Wed 9/9/2009 10:49 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [ENTS] Re: tree power!!! PJ- I'll bet there are differences between species... -Don -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 17:02:32 -0500 Subject: [ENTS] tree power!!! From: [email protected] To: [email protected] ENTS, Here is a "must read" on trees from the U of Washington: http://uwnews.org/article.asp?articleID=51869 PJ University of Washington Electrical engineers Babak Parviz and Brian Otis and undergraduate student Carlton Himes (right to left) demonstrate a circuit that runs entirely off tree power. Sept. 8, 2009 | Science | Technology Electrical circuit runs entirely off power in trees Hannah Hickey [email protected] University of Washington The custom circuit is able to store up enough voltage from trees to run a low-power sensor. You've heard about flower power. What about tree power? It turns out that it's there, in small but measurable quantities. There's enough power in trees for University of Washington researchers to run an electronic circuit, according to results to be published in an upcoming issue of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers' Transactions on Nanotechnology. "As far as we know this is the first peer-reviewed paper of someone powering something entirely by sticking electrodes into a tree," said co-author Babak Parviz, a UW associate professor of electrical engineering. A study last year from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology found that plants generate a voltage of up to 200 millivolts when one electrode is placed in a plant and the other in the surrounding soil. Those researchers are working with a company, Voltree, to develop forest sensors that exploit this new power source. The UW team sought to further academic research in the field of tree power by building circuits to run off that energy. They successfully ran a custom circuit solely off tree power. Co-author Carlton Himes, a UW undergraduate student, spent last summer exploring likely sites. Hooking nails to trees and connecting a voltmeter, he found that bigleaf maples, common on the UW campus, generate a steady voltage of up to a few hundred millivolts. The UW team next built a device that could run on the available power. Co-author Brian Otis, a UW assistant professor of electrical engineering, led the development of a boost converter, a device that takes a low incoming voltage and stores it to produce a greater output. His team's custom boost converter works for input voltages of as little as 20 millivolts (a millivolt is one-thousandth of a volt), an input voltage lower than any existing such device. It produces an output voltage of 1.1 volts, enough to run low-power sensors. The UW circuit is built from parts measuring 130 nanometers and it consumes on average just 10 nanowatts of power during operation (a nanowatt is one billionth of a watt). "Normal electronics are not going to run on the types of voltages and currents that we get out of a tree. But the nanoscale is not just in size, but also in the energy and power consumption," Parviz said. "As new generations of technology come online," he added, "I think it's warranted to look back at what's doable or what's not doable in terms of a power source." Despite using special low-power devices, the boost converter and other electronics would spend most of their time in sleep mode in order to conserve energy, creating a complication. "If everything goes to sleep, the system will never wake up," Otis said. To solve this problem Otis' team built a clock that runs continuously on 1 nanowatt, about a thousandth the power required to run a wristwatch, and when turned on operates at 350 millivolts, about a quarter the voltage in an AA battery. The low-power clock produces an electrical pulse once every few seconds, allowing a periodic wakeup of the system. The tree-power phenomenon is different from the popular potato or lemon experiment, in which two different metals react with the food to create an electric potential difference that causes a current to flow. "We specifically didn't want to confuse this effect with the potato effect, so we used the same metal for both electrodes," Parviz said. Tree power is unlikely to replace solar power for most applications, Parviz admits. But the system could provide a low-cost option for powering tree sensors that might be used to detect environmental conditions or forest fires. The electronic output could also be used to gauge a tree's health. "It's not exactly established where these voltages come from. But there seems to be some signaling in trees, similar to what happens in the human body but with slower speed," Parviz said. "I'm interested in applying our results as a way of investigating what the tree is doing. When you go to the doctor, the first thing that they measure is your pulse. We don't really have something similar for trees." Other co-authors are Eric Carlson and Ryan Ricchiuti of the UW. The research was funded in part by the National Science Foundation. ### For more information, contact Parviz at 206-616-4038 or [email protected] or Otis at 206-616-5998 or [email protected]. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you’re up to on Facebook. Find out more. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
