Tim,
Yes, I do understand that. I'm just amused at the life that the story has taken on. The newspaper account of the alleged 300-foot pine has served to release a combination of curiosity, doubt, desire, nostalgia, etc. in the rest of us with respect to the trees of the past. I expect that our curiosity centers on the genetic capability of each species: what it was in the past (probably unknowable) and what it is today. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy Zelazo" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:35:26 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [ENTS] A Large Tree article in 1849 Bob: The large tree article (the only one I found) was just one article from hundreds I've found over the years doing research. Many of the articles dealt with the Quarry operation at The Natural Bridge, and they were a big help educating us about the quarry history etc. In 1838, Nathaniel Hawthorne (An American Notebook) wrote about the natural bridge and the chasm, this also helped us understand the site. A good interpretive program should include history, science, and culture. I don't live in the past, I never thought I was living in the past, and I don't want to live in the past. I live for the present, I sometimes think about the past, and I use what I learned about the past to help me in the future. It was just one tiny article about one large tree. Tim On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:53 PM, < [email protected] > wrote: Don, Dan, et al, We seem to want to thrash this one around a little more. Well, there is no harm in that. Dan, the point about the 400-foot Doug fir is well taken. However, a point to remember about white pines is that this eastern species grows in fairly well drained sandy to sandy-silty soils and there is plenty of that still around the New England countryside. When you get really rich soils with ample moisture, you don't get white pines. This doesn't prove that there aren't other environmental factors involved, but the point does need to be taken into consideration. Thinking about possible factors that might adversely impact growth today, I can immediately think of two. I am unsure of how susceptible white pines are to current levels of air pollution and then there are chemical compounds and elements in the soil, i.e. soil pollution. Maybe Lee has a take on pollutants. Tim, Looks like you let Pandora out of the box when you cited that newspaper article. I'm glad you did because it opened the door to a more serious discussion about the limits of growth of each species that interest us. One species that I am especially interested in is fraxinus americana. I'd like to think that western Massachusetts is one of the geographical regions that especially favors the species. Sweet Thing agrees. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Summers" < [email protected] > To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:13:54 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [ENTS] A Large Tree article in 1849 I think he’s right. I believe in the 300-footer. Maybe part of our resistance to believing is our incredible sadness that we weren’t there to see it. -- Carolyn Summers 63 Ferndale Drive Hastings-on-Hudson, NY 10706 914-478-5712 From: "Miles, Dan" < [email protected] > Reply-To: < [email protected] > Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:40:00 -0500 To: " [email protected] " < [email protected] > Conversation: A Large Tree article in 1849 Subject: [ENTS] A Large Tree article in 1849 ENTS- This article reminds me of the story of a 400 ft. tall Douglas-fir cut down in Seattle around the turn of the 20th century. I thought this was a tall tale told by my grandfather until I did a little research and just found out it was probably true. Even for a Doug Fir (extraordinary specimens still grow to 300 ft.) a hundred feet taller seems incredible by today’s standards, though there are still thousands of acres of virgin, old-growth forest in the Pacific Northwest, as I can attest to from personal experience. However, little of it is on fertile soil in protected valleys. Before millions of acres of the best tree-growing land was taken, perhaps one in a billion ancient firs grew to 400 ft., whether by genetic potential, conditions, or pure chance. That isn’t likely to happen again. As for New England’s white pine country, surely we will never know how fertile the best soil was, as it was the first to be exploited and degraded centuries ago, along with the taking of all of the best pines. How then can we evaluate the possibility of a 300 ft. pine based on incomparable current conditions and populations, and on a few unreliable records? How many ancient eastern white pines are there left growing under ideal conditions on which to base a comparison? I think none. I vote that one-in-a-billion 300 ft. tall eastern white pines once lived! Now follow this link: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_tall_can_a_Douglas-fir_grow and you’ll see reliable-looking records for several Douglas-firs over 400 ft. tall cut down as late as the 1920’s. Dan Miles -- Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] -- Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] -- Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] -- Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] -- Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected]
