Chris, thanks for the info on the telescoping pole. I'm thinking the "heavy duty" version 16' pole would be a good choice.
For my 9 ft. measuring pole I fabricated a simple folding "L" from aluminum angle stock, it's attached to the top of the pole which I place over the highest twig for a precise measurement. -Andrew Roddick, Chris wrote: > > Ed, > > We have older data from the champion trees we have at the botanic > garden but most of the height data is just from the pass few years. I > went to a workshop with Steve Sillett and Robert Van Pelt a few years > ago at a ISA meeting in St. Louis and that is what really got me > interested in leaning better techniques in measuring trees. > > Also I’ve worked on rain forest trees in French Guiana as a climber > helping with some research projects. The last project I proposed and > worked on a in Jan. 08 was to measure and increment bore some of the > largest trees we saw on the Gros Arbres trail out side of very little > town in the forest called Saul. That was no easy task I found out, so > I’ve been trying to learn and work out methods here at the botanic > garden so if we get the money someday to go back down there I’ll be > more prepared. > > One tool that has really help with the tape drops is the extendable > pole my climbing partner Alec Baxt found a few years ago. Here is a > link to were to get one. > > http://cableorganizer.com/fiberglass-rod/telescoping-pole.htm > > Its helpful to tie a red ribbon at the top of the pole or end of the > tape to help see and match up with end of a twig. We have the 16’ pole > but I was looking at the web-site and there is a 3’ to 26’ pole also. > Too bad Christmas is over. > > I also think it would great ideal to have a workshop someday on tape > drops and field measuring methods. It would help in getting better > data by getting the techniques more standardized. > > -Chris > > *From:* Edward Frank [mailto:[email protected]] > *Sent:* Sunday, December 27, 2009 9:22 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Cc:* Roddick, Chris > *Subject:* Re: [ENTS] Re: Tree Climbing and tree Measurements > > Chris, > > Thanks for the response. I am wondering how much tree height data you > have collected at Brooklyn Botanic from tape drops, and how long of a > record you have compiled? Do you have data over a few years or ten > years? I know it is difficult to sometimes see what is the highest > branch. On the recent climb of the Seneca Hemlock by Will at Cook > Forest SP, PA (and on some other climbs some others) we tried to have > people on the hillside or in nearby trees to better access what sprig > was actually the tallest. An advantage of tape drops and climbs is > that if there are clustered tops, or the top of the tree are > relatively flat, the tallest point may not even be visible from the > ground. I hope you continue to post to the group and add comments and > contribute information to out discussions. Tips and tricks on how to > best measure trees heights from within the canopy would be appreciated > as would some ideas on how to qualitatively or quantitatively access > and describe the canopy itself for eastern trees. Will Blozan has done > quite a bit of canopy stuff, both in the western US and here in the > east with the Middleton Oak Project, ad his Tsuga Search Project, but > different ideas are always of interest (to e at least) > > Ed > > http://nature-web-network.blogspot.com/ > http://primalforests.ning.com/ > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=709156957 > <http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=709156957> > > Roddick, Chris > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:49 PM > To: '[email protected]' > <mailto:%[email protected]%27> > Subject: RE: [ENTS] Re: Tree Climbing and tree Measurements > > Ed, > > As an arborist and a climber I try to make taking measurements as > just part > of the job when going up a tree. Dropping a tape from the top of a > tree as > many of you know is not always that simple, maybe why most > arborist don't do > it. > Some arborist may only judge the height of a tree just by the > length of > their climbing rope double over a limb (if you have a 120'rope > around a limb > say 15' from the top, when you come down and you only have 10' of > rope on > the ground you have a 70' tall tree if my math is right) not too > scientific. > > > The biggest problem maybe is knowing the exact height of a tree is not > really part of arboriculture. DBH is used for some treatments but > not so > much for height. Most climbers I know will just guess at the > height to know > how long of a rope to bring up and that's about it. There is one > phenomenon, > that when climbers tell stories about a difficult tree they worked > on, the > tree gets taller on each telling of the story. Could be the real > reason we > don't want to know. > > I work at the Brooklyn Botanic garden where we have a few state, > city, and > long island champion trees so we measure each tree as they need > pruning or > other work. I also like to keep records of all our trees, I feel its > important for managing a collection, it also helps our tree care > program > with funding and research. Good measurements over time make our tree > collections even more valuable and more useful for scientific > research. > > Each tree we work on we try to document DBH, height, and a > assessment of > biological and mechanical health of stem and roots. The preferred > way to > measure height is to drop a tape from the top. We sometimes use a 16' > extendable pole that collapsed down two less then 2'(it's use for > power-line > work). The pole helps when you can't get to the very top. But it > still can > be difficult in shade trees to know where the high point really > is, even > from up in the tree. In the winter months I find the rangefinder > works even > better for some shade trees with larger canopy. > > I think the more arborist that find out about ENTS and other > groups may help > motivate them to take a little time to measure more trees and look for > champions and other notable trees. Just knowing that there are > people out > there that care about these things helps. > > Thank you for all your work ENTS, > > Chris Roddick > Head Arborist > Brooklyn Botanic Garden > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of James Parton > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:30 PM > To: ENTSTrees > Subject: [ENTS] Re: Tree Climbing and tree Measurements > > Ed, > > Sometimes there is a time to measure and document and sometimes it is > just time to lay back taking it easy and just simply enjoy the forest > for what it is. Both are enjoyable. Both have their place. > > JP > > On Dec 22, 6:58 pm, "Edward Frank" <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > ENTS, > > > > I posted tie following message to a couple of tree climbing > forums on > Facebook. I would welcome the input of people here in ENTS as well. > > > > Tree Climbing and Tree Measuring > > > > I am curious why tree climbers as a group do not measure more > trees. I > have been corresponding with several people individually on the > subject, and > am now opening the conversation to the wider group. I am a member > of the > Eastern Native Tree Society,http://www.nativetreesociety.org- a groups > described by one website as tree measuring fanatics. One > respondent said > (paraphrased): > > > > The majority of the folks .are coming from the realm of > connecting with > nature, in an almost philosophical way. They seem to look at the > trees as > friends and don't seem that interested in the trees stats. Kind of > like > hanging out with your friends, do you ask them how much they weigh > or how > tall they are? > > > > Other people suggested that there really are two groups of tree > climbers - > those that do it recreationally and those that do it as a > business. It was > suggested that those who do it for a business might not want to take > measurements at the expense of work time. There is commonly > "production > pressure" that often makes it unfeasible for employees of many > companies to > take the extra time needed for accurate measurements. Many of > those that > climb recreationally might be more interested I the experience of > climbing > rather than the taking measurements. Another commented that many > climbers > do not climb to the very top, or near the very top of trees needed > to do > tape drops because of safety concerns especially when dealing with > thin > topped conifers. > > > > Personally I would disagree with the idea that measuring a tree > detracts > from the one with nature experience. As a caver I enjoyed mapping > caves, > because it forced me to take the time to see the small details I > would have > missed in a typical trip through the system. Likewise I find measuring > trees in the forest gives me a richer and more meaningful trip > than a simple > hike. I am actively looking for different species of trees, of the > relationships between them, of the structure and detail of the > canopy, of > the bark details, and signs of age. They are brought into focus by the > process and time it takes to make measurements. I am sure the same > would be > found to be true for those that take the time to measure the trees > they > climb in more detail. > > > > One person suggested that often the girth is measured, but the > heights are > only estimated, and that is good enough. Perhaps there is not a > realization > of how badly off these estimates of heights might be, even when using > standard forestry techniques of distance x tangent of the > clinometer angle > taught in most forestry courses. Errors are commonly in the range > of 20%. I > want to know how tall of a tree is being climbed, why are bad > estimates good > enough? (ENTS laser rangefinder/clinometer methods can accurately > measure > heights to within a foot of the actual height - but require some > instrumentation). > > > > Would some written guidelines on the process of doing tape > drops, or even > the more complex trunk volume calculations be of interest or useful to > recreational tree climbers? Or at least of interest to some climbers? > Certainly it would bring more big tree discoveries to light if more > climbers were measuring. > > > > I am looking for your thoughts ideas, and input on the subject. > If you > have something to say, please reply. You can message e > individually if you > prefer. > > > > Ed Frank > > > > "Beauty is a summation of the parts working together in such a > way that > nothing is needed to be added, taken away or altered." Elio Caretti > > -- > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > Send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > To unsubscribe send email to > [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > -- > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > Send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > To unsubscribe send email to > [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > -- > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > Send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > To unsubscribe send email to > [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > -- > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > Send email to [email protected] > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] -- Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected]
