Will: Interesting about the Biltmore pines. I have been there, seen the pine plantings, and read about Washington Vanderbilt's forestry efforts, but had not heard about the provenance of the white pines there. It is ironic that the very good stand outside Parsons, WV is from seed taken from the area. I assume it is a native strain and was not taken from the Biltmore pine plantings. Curious!
--Gaines --------------------------------------------------------------------- On 1/12/10, Will Blozan <[email protected]> wrote: > Gaines, > > Good points. I will point out however that the "record setting" white pines > we tout are not plantations or reforestation projects. All that I am aware > of are natural groves. In fact, in the superlative growing conditions of the > Smokies there are many planted pine forests from the CCC era. They suck. Of > course, they are not necessarily on superior pine sites although native > pines grow nearby. > > One case study we have here in NC is the extensive pine forests on the > Biltmore Estate. These trees were planted in the 1890's or so and have > matured quite nicely. But the seeds came from Maine via Germany. Thus, they > are rather short and slender but exceptionally well pruned. The stock was > likely selected for the straight growth and good pruning when first exported > to Europe but when growth here they are far behind the native provenance. In > fact, before it blew down the tallest tree on the Estate was a native stock > white pine. > > Will F. Blozan > President, Eastern Native Tree Society > President, Appalachian Arborists, Inc. > > "No sympathy for apathy" > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Gaines McMartin > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:04 AM > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [ENTS] Re: Projected heights > > All you fascinating guys here, ENTS: > > A good deal of the discussion above reflects on the growth > potential of second growth white pine forests versus the virgin > forests. Forgive me if I am repeating observations already made > here,- I know I am to some extent, but I want to emphasize two things > that seem to me to suggest that second gtrowth forests could produce > white pines taller than the original old growth forests. > > First, second growth white forests are dense--the trees grow up > together, compete for the light, and protect each other from winds > and...bird perch damage. > > Next, many of these second growth forests are reforestation > projects. Sometimes, and I think fairly often, these projects are on > sites that did not have white pine growing before. Something that the > "layman" may not realize is that white pine generally does not grow > naturally on the sites where it will grow the best. This can seem like > a contradiction. The reason is that white pine does not reproduce > well and/or compete well as seedlings with hardwoods and herbacious > plants on the best, most nutrient rich, growing sites. Any little > seedlings that may appear are quickly overtopped and supressed, and > generally don't survive very long. Natural white pine stands are most > usually found on the lighter soils, the less nutrient rich sites where > the seedlings don't face such severe competition. But these are not > the sites where it grows best. Of course there are some conditions, > in some cases fire, which can help white pine reproduce well on site > where it might not otherwise. > > So, many second growth stands are growing on sites better than > those on which much of the virgin white pine grew. > > So, there is good reason to think that second growth stands will > often, if not usually exceed the growth of the lost virgin white pine > forests. > > --Gaines > >
