Gary- How about helium filled part balloons...;>} Wait, you.ve probably seen that before!
-Don From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENTS] Re: Joyce Kilmer Memorial Forest LiDAR ground-truthing expedition 1-2010 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:29:13 -0500 Thanks Paul, will do. BTW, have you run into any neat gadgets for remotely viewing the canopy that are affordable? I have been wondering whether a webcam on a cable system controlled from the ground would work. One of my Limno buddies is building a submersible out of PVC pipe, remote control props and webcam for his aquatic class..I wonder what could be used to explore a canopy remotely (ballon, cables, telescopic pole, etc). Gary Sent from my iPhone On Jan 12, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Paul Jost <[email protected]> wrote: Gary, When I looked for New England LiDAR earlier this year, there was no statewide coverage for any of the New England states. Some local governments, though, had acquired data. Log on to your specific local government web sites and search locally within them for GIS or LIDAR and browse around the results to find out if data is available for areas that you may be concerned with. There is a bit more data available than has been collected by the USGS Lidar web site. Paul On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Gary A Beluzo <[email protected]> wrote: Josh, I look forward to the LIDAR article (I presume in the ENTS bulletin?). North Carolina us way ahead of MA in terms if LIDAR coverage ( oh boy I can see I have opened MA to a full verbal assault by my fellow southern ENTS brothers. Gary Sent from my iPhone On Jan 12, 2010, at 4:07 PM, Gary A Beluzo <[email protected]> wrote: Will, This gets us back into the heart of the NATURAL (AUTOPOIETIC) versus MAN-AGED (Artificial) debate which is so critical for ENTS to undertake. It really goes to the crux of what to call these forests and how to think/talk about them. We shouldn't simply accept the understanding and pronouncements of traditional forestry now that systems ecology is available. Gary Sent from my iPhone On Jan 12, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Will Blozan <[email protected]> wrote: Mike, Very true. I think we humans may be inadvertently responsible for these trees to finally fully express their potential. As such, are they artificial? Will F. Blozan President, Eastern Native Tree Society President, Appalachian Arborists, Inc. "No sympathy for apathy" -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Davie Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:34 PM To: ENTSTrees Subject: [ENTS] Re: Joyce Kilmer Memorial Forest LiDAR ground-truthing expedition 1-2010 I think the reason that these second-growth stands tend to be the taller ones would be due to a couple of factors. The fact that the area was cut at one time would create a densely competing stand of evenly-aged trees, in excellent soils and on good sites. The trees, growing as a unit, have not been through enough great disturbances to start battering the crowns and texturing the canopy. They protect each other from wind, to a certain extent. As they get older and more broken up in the tops, with more canopy gaps and individual exposure, they might be more likely to become shorter, overall, or at least they might even out. I don't know how often we would naturally get such total removal and regeneration of a forest stand on a site like this, even with hurricanes and downbursts (but sure, maybe), so these types of tall forests may not be possible without being clearcut in the first place. Mike On Jan 12, 12:18 am, Steve Galehouse <[email protected]> wrote: Josh, ENTS- So why would second growth be taller than old growth, unless the old growth was really second growth "once removed"? I think if younger trees are growing larger and faster than their ancestors, they must have been released from some environmental constraint, which might relate to climate change, or species mix degradation in the forest. Steve On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Josh Kelly <[email protected]>wrote: Will, Gaines, The "Type Map: Gennett Lumber Company Tract No. 309f.g. Graham Co. North Carolina" by John Wasilk (sound familiar) and Party from June, July 1935 clearly shows an abandoned field adjacent to second growth coves we visited, but depicts the coves, like the 99% of the rest of the 13,055 acre tract, as "virgin". The more I think about it, the more I think those coves were logged sometime from August 1935-late 1937, when the USFS acquired the tract. The wagon road that led to the abandoned field gave better access to that exceptional spot than was available to Poplar Cove, so now we are left with exceptional 2nd growth, rather than exceptional old-growth. I'd wager many of the poplars in that stand regenerated in the late 1930's while a few are a decade or two older. For all of you botanically inclined ENTS, I have started to key in on a couple of tall tree and high-productivity-site- indicating herbs. They are Goldie's Fern (Dryopteris goldiana) and walking fern (Asplenium rhizophyllum), both basophiles or calceophiles. A number of the tall tree spots in the Smokies have one or both of these species as well as "Wachacha Flats" -the name I propose for the exceptional 2nd growth area at Kilmer. For all of you of you folks interesed in LiDAR and tall trees, I am compiling an article from information contributed by Paul Jost, Jenn Hushaw (Nichols School masters student at Duke), Hugh Irwin (ENTS, SAFC), Will Blozan, Jess Riddle, and myself. Included in the article will be a narrative about our experiences utilizing LiDAR data and some notes on its accuracy and precision in the mountains of North Carolina. It will also include some fancy smancy maps! Josh On Jan 11, 7:22 pm, "Will Blozan" <[email protected]> wrote: Gaines, I have a 170 footer in Big Creek; 69 years at BH. The Kilmer trees may only be 75 years old. Will F. Blozan President, Eastern Native Tree Society President, Appalachian Arborists, Inc. "No sympathy for apathy" -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gaines McMartin Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:20 PM To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENTS] Joyce Kilmer Memorial Forest LiDAR ground-truthing expedition 1-2010 Will: Thanks for the very exciting account of your survey in Joyce Kilmer. Maybe you know, but there have been reports of site indexes of up to 140 feet for tuliptree. Second growth can really be something if given just a little time. I don't have any data for tuliptree growth rates past 50 years. It may be out there. --Gaines _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/
