**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 7 10:31:05 2008 May 07 10:31:05 * Now talking on #fedora-meeting May 07 11:00:45 <smooge> i am here for a meeting I moved to the wrong time May 07 11:01:09 <spoleeba> smooge, epel meeting? May 07 11:01:17 <nirik> smooge: no worries... we can do it in an hour and move next time? May 07 11:01:28 <smooge> yeah May 07 11:01:44 <smooge> dumb-de-dumb-dumb May 07 11:50:15 >#fedora-devel< reminder ping: Jeff_S, knurd, mmcgrath, nirik, smooge, stahnma, quaid and everyone interested in EPEL -- EPEL meeting in #fedora-meeting at 18:00 UTC May 07 12:00:29 * smooge has changed the topic to: EPEL Sig meeting -- Meeting rules at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines -- Init process May 07 12:00:40 >#fedora-devel< Meeting ping: Jeff_S, knurd, mmcgrath, nirik, smooge, stahnma, quaid and everyone interested in EPEL -- EPEL meeting in #fedora-meeting now! May 07 12:01:05 <smooge> Hi everybody; who's around for the EPEL meeting? May 07 12:01:29 * smooge likes to remind everyone that the schedule for todays meeting as well as a list of all open tasks can be found on... oh crap.. stupid stupid stupid leader May 07 12:01:42 * nirik is here for a bit... but will have to go pick up a dog from the vet soon. May 07 12:01:43 <spoleeba> smooge, im here..but im new...so be gentle May 07 12:04:17 <smooge> well no problem May 07 12:04:30 <smooge> I think this will be a non-meeting as most everyone on the board can't make it May 07 12:05:14 <nirik> yeah, we need a better time or something. ;( May 07 12:05:21 <smooge> first I wanted to say that I missed in the guidelines where we change the meetings to 1700UTC on Daylight Savings TIme... but then I realized that DST is different around the world so that makes it really hard to figure out May 07 12:06:59 <smooge> ok so with only 3 of us here.. this will be really simple. May 07 12:07:18 <smooge> I am almost caught up with the weekly reports. I have this weeks to finish and mail out May 07 12:07:58 <smooge> We have a lot of new pacakges it would seem and some concerns that we have too many broken dependencies May 07 12:08:34 <nirik> note that broken deps are only ever in testing. May 07 12:08:52 <nirik> smooge: I also processed your plague branch... so you should be able to build that anytime. May 07 12:09:19 * mmcgrath pongs May 07 12:10:30 <smooge> Well they are affecting some stuff to production. I May 07 12:10:48 <smooge> I need to have an IRC client that uses ^U like its supposed to be.. it would seem May 07 12:10:53 * quaid is here now May 07 12:10:57 <smooge> hello guys May 07 12:11:20 <spoleeba> mmcgrath, you saw my latest email to you concerning your proposal? sent yesterday May 07 12:11:21 <smooge> first thing.. the meeting is supposed to be at 1700 UTC during summer months... I am not sure if thats good for everyone or not May 07 12:11:35 <nirik> either works for me. May 07 12:11:40 * quaid is OK with that, but what is the cutoff? May 07 12:11:52 <quaid> that is, which daylight savings switch do we follow? May 07 12:12:40 <smooge> quaid, that is the problem I don't think is well thought out. May 07 12:12:55 <smooge> I will open an email to the list and get that pinned down. May 07 12:13:07 <smooge> second quaid you would like to get some data for your talks? May 07 12:13:07 <mmcgrath> spoleeba: I did. May 07 12:13:16 <quaid> +1 to data May 07 12:13:24 <quaid> growth, usage, types of packages May 07 12:14:13 <smooge> also I would like to get people to say what they are wanting the project to be for them.. to see if we can get an idea of where this bus is headed May 07 12:15:02 <quaid> true May 07 12:15:09 <quaid> although May 07 12:15:18 <quaid> I think that puts is back in the Fedora focus land May 07 12:15:25 <quaid> that is, we're going to see lots of answers May 07 12:15:43 <smooge> actually we have seen 0 :) May 07 12:15:51 <quaid> even better! May 07 12:16:04 <quaid> perfect consensus May 07 12:16:45 * nirik has that mail marked to reply to, just hasn't gotten to it yet. ;) May 07 12:18:01 <smooge> I know people like Micheal Schwendt have one view of things and Knurd has a different view.. and there have been views from a year ago.. but currently we are new people at it and should make sure we are meeting our customers needs May 07 12:18:33 <nirik> pity that all we have to communicate with end users is the epel-devel list. ;( May 07 12:18:43 <nirik> could try blog posting I guess... May 07 12:18:46 <quaid> one of the keys is making sure whatever people want, it fits within the slower, more stable nature of EPEL May 07 12:18:59 <quaid> +1 to blogging, and maybe we want to discuss ... May 07 12:19:03 <quaid> well, do we need an EPEL specific list? May 07 12:19:19 <quaid> or mmcgrath, what about using a Sysadmin SIG as a place? May 07 12:19:27 <nirik> we talked about an announce list, but not sure if we decided we needed it or not... May 07 12:19:30 * quaid knows that would miss e.g. developers and end-users who use EPEL though .. May 07 12:19:53 <mmcgrath> quaid: sorry had a phone call, catching up. May 07 12:20:20 <smooge> Well the first place is to find out where our customers talk... rhel lists versus fedora-devel is my feeling... but its probably much more on centos lists May 07 12:20:43 <nirik> I think fudcon/redhat summit would also be a good place to get feedback... but also to get more end users. May 07 12:20:47 <quaid> actually, we probably need to make sure the steering committee has a good rep from various parties (sysadmin, pure consumers, contributors/packagers, developers, etc.) May 07 12:21:08 <quaid> or we divide these areas to have a watch over May 07 12:21:18 <smooge> which also comes up to a new thing... when do we have elections for EPEL steering committee May 07 12:21:34 <quaid> when we want to? :) May 07 12:21:59 <spoleeba> since im new... can anyone sum up the state of the epel and centos communication lines? May 07 12:22:05 <quaid> sorry, I know elections are part of making a formal project, but a SIG can move as it needs, right? we still need to grow our reach into various groups to attract enough people to have a vote, etc. May 07 12:22:23 <quaid> spoleeba: cabalistic, afaict :) May 07 12:22:43 <spoleeba> quaid, just as long as its not open warfare May 07 12:23:10 <smooge> Well we currently have 8 members and I would like it to be a 12 month cycle for half the board. May 07 12:23:41 <quaid> we don't have a group to do the voting May 07 12:23:48 <quaid> so we could only open to all groups or something. May 07 12:24:07 <smooge> spoleeba, the state of CentOS + EPEL communications are strained. May 07 12:24:17 <quaid> because of issues? May 07 12:24:26 <smooge> I would not say they are dead, but I would not say they are best chums. May 07 12:24:44 <quaid> um, what did we do wrong? May 07 12:25:06 * quaid missed something, considering he was all "CentOS this and CentOS that" talking about EPEL in a podcasty thing the other day May 07 12:25:07 <nirik> they might not like us due to repotag. May 07 12:25:15 <smooge> quaid, to .epel. or to not. We chose not to May 07 12:25:31 <mmcgrath> I'd think they're over that now though. May 07 12:25:40 * mmcgrath still hangs out in #centos-social and chats with them. May 07 12:25:45 <mmcgrath> I don't feel any distain for me anyway :) May 07 12:26:02 <mmcgrath> they're good guys. I suspect if we had a project or need that we could certainly go to them and talk about it. May 07 12:26:09 <smooge> mmcgrath, memories are long... they are not disdainful but it is a point of contention that comes up when looking for common ground. May 07 12:27:58 <nirik> well, also centos/rhel users are slow to adopt new repos... so we need to keep going along and being stable and offering more and more... May 07 12:28:02 <spoleeba> the centos userbase would be an obvious group to encourage to participate in EPEL, but such a discussion can't appear as poaching May 07 12:28:19 <nirik> there is no easy way to magically appear and get all the conservitive users to use epel. May 07 12:28:35 <nirik> there is also some overlap with centos-extras. May 07 12:28:45 <quaid> which goes to spoleeba's point May 07 12:28:56 <quaid> that it would be great if folks could do that work in Fedora May 07 12:29:00 <quaid> without feeling like it was poaching. May 07 12:29:34 <quaid> this seems related to me the concern that EPEL maintainers might not appreciate RHEL pulling in packages "from" EPEL; some people appreciate the idea, others might not May 07 12:29:43 <quaid> but the fact is ... May 07 12:29:57 <quaid> when centos-extras does a package that is popular, we are going to want it in our repo May 07 12:30:08 <smooge> the bigger issue is that we need to make sure we can work well in some fashion with Dag's stuff. At least be clear why we can't work well together and that we don't have problems with that. May 07 12:30:09 <quaid> and when we do good work in making that popular, RHEL is going to want it in their repo. May 07 12:30:10 * nirik nods May 07 12:31:08 <spoleeba> smooge, there's a name ive lost track of May 07 12:31:13 <smooge> working well meaning that our package standards and his are not the same and this causes conflicts May 07 12:31:39 <nirik> well, there is not going to ever be any easy way to do that... all the other repos have different standards... May 07 12:31:45 <spoleeba> smooge, is dag's effort multi-person at this point..or is it a one man show May 07 12:31:58 <nirik> dag is part of rpmforge now I think. May 07 12:32:05 <nirik> which is changing to something else. May 07 12:32:10 <smooge> The same with Axel's standards and such. The bigger issue is that we just need to be clear that we are different and we recommend that a person choose one repo or another. May 07 12:32:28 <nirik> rpmrepo May 07 12:32:37 <smooge> dag is also an auxilliary member of the CentOS group now I think... but I could be wrong May 07 12:32:51 * bashohII has quit ("夢ãããç¾ã(R)é·¹ãé ¼ããã") May 07 12:32:51 <nirik> I thought thats what we had decided... May 07 12:34:06 <mdomsch> is rpmrepo not the same as rpmfusion? May 07 12:34:06 <smooge> spoleeba, my personal belief is that he is actually an army of packagers hidden in Germany... but he does have people helping on the forge emails May 07 12:34:17 * nirik needs to go pick up a dog soon. May 07 12:34:45 <smooge> mdomsch, no. Knurd + Axel/Dag == big-bang :) May 07 12:35:13 <nirik> http://rpmrepo.org/FrontPage/People May 07 12:35:16 <mdomsch> rpmfusion = dribble, freshrpms, livna; rpmrepo = centos, scientific, atrpms, and dag and dries May 07 12:35:28 <mdomsch> arrggh May 07 12:35:34 <quaid> whee, just what we need May 07 12:35:34 <nirik> yeah. May 07 12:36:01 <smooge> well its going to happen. people have different views and different ways of communicating. May 07 12:36:01 <quaid> "Fedora EPEL -- where everyone is welcome to contribute." May 07 12:36:11 <smooge> if they sign the CLA :) May 07 12:36:21 <quaid> smooge: oh, it's all full of irony May 07 12:36:21 <smooge> and the code is opensource May 07 12:36:43 <smooge> and... anyway need to find a topic to stick to :) May 07 12:36:47 <quaid> +1 to "no repo is necc. better, depends on your view, choose one or lose" May 07 12:37:05 * smooge has changed the topic to: EPEL --- We need to have a topic here... May 07 12:37:41 <quaid> I'll gladly say and show why EPEL is worth choosing, without having to say anything about other repos; there isn't a need to. May 07 12:37:49 <nirik> FWIW, we are using epel here on all our centos machines and it pretty much has all the things we need... May 07 12:37:50 <smooge> I think the main issue is that I think we should see how we can help the others and ourselves. We know that we are each meeting different customer needs... so make it so they are met and they aren't confused May 07 12:38:38 <spoleeba> quaid, your presentation is aimed at paying rhel users? May 07 12:38:39 <smooge> s/they/our customers-clients-mindless-zombie-hordes/ May 07 12:38:41 * nirik has to go very soon. May 07 12:38:52 <smooge> ok nirik hope the god is ok May 07 12:39:08 <nirik> I would like to propose we meet next week at 17UTC... since we didn't have many folks here this week? May 07 12:39:39 <quaid> spoleeba: um ... May 07 12:39:59 * quaid looks at something, one sec May 07 12:40:00 <smooge> A proposal has been made on the floor. I +1 the proposal. May 07 12:40:33 <nirik> +1's his own proposal (is that kosher?) May 07 12:40:34 <quaid> can someone explain .. May 07 12:40:39 <quaid> the nature of the timechange for me? May 07 12:40:46 <quaid> that is, what is different where that makes 17 UTC better?> May 07 12:41:02 * quaid is not oppposed, but wants to grok what he is voting on :) May 07 12:41:41 <quaid> spoleeba: ok, my session is slotted in the "Open Source" track, within the "Deploy" path May 07 12:41:56 <quaid> spoleeba: and (re)titled "Fedora Packages for Red Hat Enterprise Linux" May 07 12:41:57 <smooge> quaid, 1) the epel meeting time was supposed to change accroding to wiki and 2) lots of people are finding 1800 hard May 07 12:42:12 <nirik> it makes it be the same time for all the North American folks who are in places with DST... May 07 12:42:13 <quaid> (which is a better title, in some respects.) May 07 12:42:45 * nirik notes that fudcon attendees can get into the Red Hat summit open source track free! Wheeee! May 07 12:43:14 * nirik leaves... will check scrollback later. May 07 12:43:29 <quaid> ok, so ... May 07 12:43:29 <smooge> quaid, what is stanhma's paper? May 07 12:43:43 <quaid> I don't get the DST thing then, were we supposed to change in March? May 07 12:43:50 <quaid> anyway, if 17 UTC is better, I can do that May 07 12:44:13 <quaid> might match my reality better; I keep trying to hit the cafe *before* this meeting to be there already but can't do it, so if we pull it back an hour, i can go after May 07 12:44:30 <smooge> Ouch bug-zappers has 1700 May 07 12:44:46 <quaid> smooge: manahttp://stahnma.fedorapeople.org/summit/ May 07 12:44:51 <quaid> http://stahnma.fedorapeople.org/summit/ May 07 12:44:58 <quaid> Release Management best practices May 07 12:45:03 <quaid> under a modified title perhaps May 07 12:45:23 * jeff_hann has quit () May 07 12:45:30 <quaid> so, it covers RHN Satellite; and I was wondering if he delivers EPEL that way, too? May 07 12:45:42 <quaid> spoleeba: ok, so back to that question May 07 12:46:41 <quaid> spoleeba: I would say that, from my perspective it is a presentation for paying EL users *and* ISV partners *and* anyone who wants a package for EL where it isn't available, and they are willing to do something about that. May 07 12:47:13 <quaid> the summary they will read in advance: "Learn how Extra Packages for Enterprise Linux is more than a repository of community-supported add-on software; it is a way to gain the advantages of the open source process for software you produce and need." May 07 12:47:17 <smooge> Ok meeting times 1700 is used in this channel, but 1600 is free May 07 12:47:35 <quaid> spoleeba: so, with all that mix, I'm not sure if we have told the audience we want that they should be there May 07 12:47:41 <quaid> I tried, but who knows how it will go? May 07 12:47:44 * Sparks ([EMAIL PROTECTED]/Sparks) has joined #fedora-meeting May 07 12:48:00 <smooge> quaid, nice summary May 07 12:48:07 <quaid> smooge: thx May 07 12:48:37 <quaid> I may hit ever vendor's booth when i get there and try to drum up audience :) May 07 12:48:49 <smooge> how does 1600 look (0900 PST) May 07 12:49:03 <spoleeba> quaid, are there any fudcon related handouts being produced for summit attendees? May 07 12:49:09 <quaid> aside from writing for the Magazine, EPEL is the main thing on my mind for the Summit, might as well fill the time well :) May 07 12:49:33 <quaid> spoleeba: I don't know, to be honest; I'm sure there is something, though ... May 07 12:49:53 <quaid> smooge: I can do 1600 (0900 P_D_T) May 07 12:50:03 <spoleeba> quaid, would it make sense to put a blurb in whatever is being printed up about epel..and specifically your talk? May 07 12:50:06 <quaid> daylight savings switch was in March :) May 07 12:50:10 <smooge> duh. thanks May 07 12:50:17 <quaid> spoleeba: interesting point! May 07 12:50:29 * quaid sends email on that subject May 07 12:50:31 <spoleeba> quaid, dear god...you want me to do an 8 am meeting? May 07 12:50:35 <smooge> I am liking arizona better and better with its time system (but not much else) May 07 12:50:48 <spoleeba> quaid, actually that might conflict..robotics sig is trying to find a meeting time too May 07 12:51:37 * mdomsch has quit (Remote closed the connection) May 07 12:52:21 <spoleeba> quaid, ive no idea who would actually be doing that sort of tree killing as part of fudcon however May 07 12:53:23 * agentunix has quit (Remote closed the connection) May 07 12:53:46 <quaid> spoleeba: that's not what I said; I said that you said PST when it is in fact PDT right now, and it ain't my fault, I hate daylight savings too May 07 12:53:53 <quaid> oh May 07 12:53:59 <quaid> sorry, you are in Pacific Ocean time May 07 12:54:02 * quaid was lost for a second May 07 12:54:21 <smooge> spoleeba, hmmm its open on the calender at the moment. I am going to put out a meeting list. We will see what we get. If people have conflicts we can work them out. May 07 12:54:22 * lmacken has quit ("leaving") May 07 12:54:25 * quaid mis-read his s<nick> for a second May 07 12:54:27 <smooge> my brain hurts May 07 12:54:38 <quaid> spoleeba: I'll find such tree killers May 07 12:54:50 * mdomsch ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined #fedora-meeting May 07 12:54:59 <smooge> maybe we can get 100% alaska paper May 07 12:55:17 <smooge> ok meeting time is about over May 07 12:55:54 <smooge> we will try and organize a meeting next week and see what can be done for getting both elections and data for quaid together May 07 12:58:30 <quaid> where do I propose we rename "Fedora Users and Developers Conference" to "Fedora Users and Contributors Conference"? May 07 12:58:52 <smooge> Konference for the KDE people May 07 12:58:59 <quaid> heh May 07 12:59:18 <stickster> um May 07 12:59:52 <smooge> sorry.. I think I blew our PG channel rating. May 07 12:59:58 <smooge> meeting has to end in 1 May 07 12:59:59 * lmacken ([EMAIL PROTECTED]/redhat-us/x-1b00d318159be3f9) has joined #fedora-meeting May 07 13:00:10 <smooge> so that the next group can talk May 07 13:00:24 <quaid> oops, I thought we were done May 07 13:00:25 <spoleeba> quaid, FECC ? im pretty sure thats an expletive May 07 13:00:30 <quaid> that wasn't in the recored, was it? May 07 13:00:46 * quaid bails, brb May 07 13:01:06 * smooge has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule
-- Stephen J Smoogen. -- BSD/GNU/Linux How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" _______________________________________________ epel-devel-list mailing list [email protected] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/epel-devel-list
