I regard the expertise issue in economics as a form of censorship.   / 
Archytas

Thank you, Archytas, for being "inclusive".... about expertise as a 
barrier.... but to a certain extent, expertise is also a requisite...Let's 
face it "ontologically" (by which I mean to say, as a matter of plain 
"fact"), "one" is better off asking an "expert" ( who definitely has a good 
chance at having the correct answer) than asking  just a layman whose 
prospects of a probable (as in probability) successful diagnosis is.... 
less.
So, I add that expertise also comes (or "should") with an "ethical" 
"professional" responsibility.... 
Can the "system" be turned more toward the "ethical".../ how.....More 
Sheriffs?....More Hangings? ... More Sheriff Hangings?

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 5:08:14 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
>
> I can explain the hoarding in a more complex way.  In history, people used 
> to hoard silver pennies.  These days money is hoarded in stock markets, 
> bonds and property.  This system might be OK, but has become a Ponzi 
> scheme.  The returns from hoarding have been exceeding that from productive 
> investment like building factories or sowing seeds.  This is largely 
> because banks do the investment.  The issues seem much more connected with 
> social epistemology than economics or finance.  In Nominal's terms, we have 
> forgotten what real is in nearly all economic discussion.  I regard the 
> expertise issue in economics as a form of censorship.  
>
> On Tuesday, 10 June 2014 16:13:42 UTC+1, nominal9 wrote:
>>
>> Hi Archytas.... 
>>
>>
>> http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2090845-belmont-stakes-2014-breaking-down-most-shocking-results-from-third-jewel
>>
>> The #9 horse at Belmont came in "fourth", a tie with the #1 pick and 
>> prospective Triple Crown winner (who lost it), California Chrome... well so 
>> much for 9 being a lucky number.... it deems my luck goes up to #4, (HAR 
>> HAR HAR HAR).....
>>
>> As for the rest of your post.... economics is not my area... it is yours. 
>> That's to say, the best I can do is ask you questions or for explanations. 
>> ... which I am quite willing to do, if you don't mind being the "brain 
>> trust" and ferreting out the... numbers and such....
>>
>>  Hoarding.... that's the main problem that I've been able to  latch on to 
>> with any conviction about money... I saw it long ago... but most recently 
>> it has been spotlighted and demonstrated "economically" by a fellow named 
>> Picketty, I've been informed.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Piketty
>> I think that the general observation is valid... there is a lot of money 
>> in the hands of  (90%) rich people that is being largely "hoarded" and is 
>> not being placed into circulation to create jobs, form businesses, spread 
>> about for general "economic" growth (as differentiated from, perhaps, 
>> "monetary" profit).
>> What do you think of my thinking... Archytas.... and what can be done at 
>> any levels to try to rectify matters?  
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, June 7, 2014 5:20:47 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
>>>
>>> Statistics have been reminding more of an old theme of ours Nom - 
>>> censorship.  We have a '9' connection by the way - it was my best position 
>>> in rugby.  As far as I can tell, scientists use numbers on a pretty fair 
>>> basis, at least until they become functionaries of business.  Much of the 
>>> rest of number use strikes me as rhetoric connected with the abuse of 
>>> power.  Numbers are often thrown about in argument that is really about 
>>> metaphor and myth.  The censorship element seems to be that you can only 
>>> take part in the debates with the number skills, with such issues as why we 
>>> should allow those 'with the numbers' control and even restrict 
>>> participation on this basis.  
>>>
>>> We seem to have lost any grip we may have had on convention.  Money, foe 
>>> Aristotle, was a convention because we could choose to ignore it tomorrow. 
>>>  These days, we know money (97%) of it is brought into being by banks 
>>> lending it at interest.  We also know this doesn't have to be the case and 
>>> government could issue it debt-free.  Government, of course, could be us or 
>>> a genuinely representative embodied form of us.  There is some prattle 
>>> about on this called positive money or Modern Monetary Theory.  I'm not 
>>> much concerned with the literature as the ideas have been around a long 
>>> time.  The principle is really that we have ceded control of organising 
>>> capacity for no real reason.  I currently think the mainstream insane and 
>>> don't know how to get the heresy across.
>>>
>>> The reasoning here is that we can do sensible stuff, like building green 
>>> energy capacity, or a new work ethic not related to fear of poverty and 
>>> real poverty.  Numbers become lies in a virtual system with such as 
>>> unemployment at 6.8% but one in six men of working age with no job.  This 
>>> is going on when we have technology (and real statistical method on 
>>> samples) that could let us report on what we are actually doing.  Years 
>>> back, when we did the footslog version of what could now be online, we 
>>> found unemployment in Woking (leafy, well-to-do England) at 18% and 58% in 
>>> Govan (crap Glasgow).  So what's the role of bullshit numbers in preventing 
>>> 'practical data'?  A nominal problem ...
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 7 June 2014 17:33:37 UTC+1, nominal9 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_of_Nine
>>>>
>>>> The gal  had a rough time of it, the gentleman in me thinks (don't know 
>>>> why) that she deserved better.....
>>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Christie
>>>>
>>>> reminded me of Julie Christie......
>>>>
>>>> This"numbers" discussion gets into the distinction between the 
>>>> "representational language" and the "thing represented".....in 
>>>> Mathematics, 
>>>> as in most all other "language" systems... people have a tendency to get 
>>>> caught up in the "language-formal" seeming connections between the 
>>>> numbers, 
>>>> and forget about the actual work that they (numbers)  are supposed to be 
>>>> doing in tracking the behavior of the "things", themselves.... hence you 
>>>> get "statisticians" ( mostly in the "social" or "human" sciences) who look 
>>>> for "number trends" or formulas that could "logically" be extrapolated as 
>>>> "predictive" of certain results.....Like in economics.....sometimes the 
>>>> "formulas" aren't all that "sound"... other times, the "things" being 
>>>> counted just don't "behave" as expected, for their own reasons.....which 
>>>> the "math practitioner" did not take into account....
>>>>
>>>> I think you and I are in pretty much agreement, Archytas...
>>>>
>>>> Odds.... on a horse race....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2088263-belmont-stakes-odds-2014-final-predictions-on-latest-vegas-betting-lines
>>>>
>>>> Maybe I'll get "lucky" on No. 9......
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, June 6, 2014 6:12:26 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The answer can be found here Nominal - 
>>>>> http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/Digitsum0.htm - though we await, 
>>>>> in baited breath, for you to tell us what this has to do with the price 
>>>>> of 
>>>>> fish.  Were you once 8 of 9 and hence on top of Seven (lucky man)?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been thinking of late on the relations between anarchism and 
>>>>> science; specifically why economics is such obfuscatory rot.  Anarchy at 
>>>>> its best seeks to remove mystification, and though science gets into 
>>>>> equations and numbers that get tough, these let us do things like firing 
>>>>> a 
>>>>> complex catapult build to Mars.  Economics just seems to be a system that 
>>>>> tell us we can't do this and that because money will be screwed and 
>>>>> should 
>>>>> shut up when we can't talk in numbers and approved bible language.  
>>>>> Perhaps 
>>>>> endlessly repeating sums that add up to 9 will turn one economist?  
>>>>> Unless 
>>>>> one needs the initial condition of nominal9?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, 5 June 2014 23:17:44 UTC+1, nominal9 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> examples:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 9x1=9...9+0=9
>>>>>> 9x2=18...1+8=9anrchu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>>> 9x3=27...2+7=9
>>>>>> 9x4=36...3+6=9
>>>>>>
>>>>>> etc.  .... ad infinitum (?)though 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is 9.... "nominal" number (?) .... HAR
>>>>>>
>>>>>

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