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So, "groups" does not have an "e"
Sorry folks,
HArry
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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:41:33 -0800 (PST)
From: "Harry L. Francis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: [ercoupe-flyin] Crosswind take offs
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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:37:45 -0800 (PST)
From: "Harry L. Francis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [ercoupe-flyin] Crosswind take offs
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Rick, You have it right.... The reason that holding a
little pressure on the controls works, is that in a
static position, the wings are in a no lift angle of
attack (as designed by Weick - and only if the tail is
at the proper height - level window edges on a level
surface). In this position the ercoupe will not fly
even at 120 mph (as noticed in the piots manual on
landing speeds - pointing out that the ercoupe will
not baloon when landing as high as 120 mph)
So this is the real reason for setting the airplane
level by shimming the main gear struts, especially
when utiizing a double fork nose gear, which is about
2 Inches longer than the single fork - pushing down
the tail. ....making the wings become positive angle
of attack, and no longer as specified by design.
Yes, hold a little forward pressure until reaching
about 70 mph indicated, then pop off the ground by
applying slight back pressure.
The coupe will then pop off, and immediately swing to
a crabbed climb position flying straight down the
runway.
If a double fork was installed on aircraft using the
original rubber doughnuts, the main gear struts need
to be shimmed in order to attain the proper static
position. Forney introduced the double fork nose gear
along with the Belleville springs, replacing the
rubber doughnuts. Their idea was that the Belleville
springs would absorb rough taxi areas better than the
rubber doughnuts. This may be true, but with fairly
smooth modern runways, I think the rubber dsoughnuts
work fine --- if shimmed properly...ie: level the
airplane with sufficient shims on the main struts
(generally about 7/16 inch collars)..creating a tail
height about 77 inches, slightly above the original
specs of 75 inches...making sure the window edges are
level...when the airplne is sitting on a level pad.
Fly Safe - Have Fun
Harry Francis
--- Rick Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Robert,
>
> Glen is spot-on. I have had several takeoffs with a
> 20 knot crosswind and a twenty-five foot wide strip.
>
> The key (I've found) is to hold it down and steer
> straight down the runway. I actually let the speed
> build to about 70 and pop it off - it will
> immediately
> crab into the wind and just hold it for the runway
> heading.
>
> Unlike a cessna that floats off the runway
> immediately, Fred Weick designed the Ercoupe so that
> it cannot lift off until rotated. I had to do a
> full
> speed run down a long runway to prove this to
> myself.
> But if you keep the front wheel planted for
> steering,
> you can go full speed and not lift off.
>
> On a shorter field I might opt to rotate at a slower
> speed - but, I've had no issues with getting up to
> speed and popping it off. Kinda fun actually.
>
> I was on an airport that had five ercoupes at one
> time, and on several Saturday mornings of brisk
> winds
> coming off of Lake Michigan, the Ercoupes were doing
> touch and goes on cross runways - while the other
> pilots drank coffee in the terminal.
>
> Admittedly, the first few were white-knucklers,
> until
> you reach that moment that you go "HEY - THIS IS
> GREAT!"
>
> Have fun,
>
> Rick N93686
>
> Ps. I did find it easier to take-off on a
> twenty-five
> foot wide strip with a crosswind - than to land.
> Experience has taught me to make longer final
> approaches in crosswinds to more accurately guage
> the
> drifting.
>
>
>
> --- Glen Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Robert
> >
> > Good point and an experience I, too, have
> > had...although the runway was 150 feet wide and I
> > already was almost airborne I don't know the
> answer
> > but I will assume the answer is as follows
> > (comments, suggestions, corrections please):
> >
> > In a pedalless Ercoupe, on take-off with a strong
> > crosswind, add a bit of extra forward pressure on
> > the nosewheel during the ground-roll portion of
> the
> > take-off, thus keeping the nosewheel firmly
> planted
> > and reducing the possibility of the airplane
> > weathervaning into the wind. When at Vr (rotation
> > speed), briskly pull back and get the aircraft
> > flying. Then, crab as necessary to maintain
> runway
> > heading.
> >
> > Any thoughts
> >
> > Glen Davis CFII
> >
> > From: robertbartunek
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 9:00 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: [ercoupe-flyin] Crosswind take offs
> >
> >
> > I've read a lot of comments about how easy it is
> > to land an Ercoupe
> > in a crosswind, even up to 30 kts or so, and all
> > those comments are
> > quite true. What we should be talking about,
> > though, are crosswind
> > takeoffs which can become a bit hairy.
> > On my recent trip bringing my Coupe down to
> > Florida, I landed at
> > Perryton, TX in a fairly stout crosswind. Now
> > problem. Touch down
> > in a crab and the nose swings around to track
> down
> > the runway just
> > like in a T-38 which uses the same crosswind
> > landing technique. All
> > this occurs while the aircraft is decelerating
> so
> > lateral control
> > down the runway is uncomplicated using the
> > nosewheel steering and the
> > airspeed is low.
> > Takeoffs, however, are a differnt challenge.
> > Departing Perryton, I started a normal takeoff
> run
> > and reaching about
> > 35 knots the aircraft wanted to weathervane to
> the
> > right into the
> > approximate 30 mph crosswind so I turned the
> wheel
> > to the left to
> > track centerline. Then the fun began.
> > The left turn input on the wheel also made the
> > right (upwind) aileron
> > go down creating more lift on the right (upwind)
> > wing. I glanced out
> > to the right and was really surprised at how far
> > downward the right
> > aileron was deflected. The aircraft fairly
> quickly
> > assumed about a 20
> > degree left bank while still on takeoff roll at
> > about 40 mph.
> > Instinct resulted in turning the wheel to the
> > right to lower the
> > right wing but it also turned the nose wheel to
> > the right which
> > magnified the right turning moment (weathervane)
> > into the crosswind.
> > Instead of runway ahead, I saw runway edge,
> grass,
> > runway lights and
> > trees. As I approached the runway edge, I
> rotated
> > and the Coupe
> > became airborne prior to leaving the hard
> surface
> > because we were now
> > at about 50 mph IAS. Whew! I'll bet it looked
> like
> > some drunk had
> > stolen an airplane, if anyone was watching the
> > takeoff.
> > So watch out for the crosswind takeoffs and
> > associated roll away from
> > the upwind wing. I think I have a plan to
> > compensate for this
> > weathervane/roll effect but I will leave that
> > conversation for later.
> > Oh yeah, I have about 6000 hours, an ATP and
> have
> > flown everything
> > from mach plus (T-38) to mach nix (A-1
> Skyraider)
> > so I am not exactly
> > new to the game. This takeoff really surprised
> me
> > and caught me
> > offguard.
> > Robert Bartunek
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Glen
> >
> >
> >
> > Glen Davis
> > 917 297 1111
> > www.ishootpictures.com
> > www.ercoupepilot.com
>
>
>
>
>
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