Bill,
On both the 718 and 787 look under SPECIFICATIONS PERTINENT TO ALL MODELS. See "Certifaction basis" and "Production basis".
This clears up some of the confusion and creates more.
Bill
From: "Ed Burkhead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Ed Burkhead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Coupe-Tech'" <[email protected]>
Subject: FW: [COUPERS-TECH] Aircraft spec / type certificate
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:57:19 -0600----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----This message was automatically forwarded on behalf of Bill Bayne. Please address any responses to the mail list or directly to Bill at: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: William R. Bayne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 2:57 PM
To: Ed Burkhead
Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Aircraft spec / type certificate
rlytech
Hi Ed,
I, like you have been making reference to TCDS (Type Certificate Data Sheet) 718 and 787. This appears justified by the notation to the left of the title of each: "Type Certificate Holder: Univair Aircraft Corporation".
If you go to page 6 of A-718, NOTE 3:(e), note the reference to "NOTE 2 of Aircraft Specification No. A-787 (emphasis added).
This, to me, indicates at one time BOTH A-718 and A-787 were titled "Aircraft Specification".
Additionally, the Ercoupe 415 and 415-C were designed under CAR 4a. Later, The 415-D, E, G, et al were designed under CAR 3. Fred Weick and Erco had every expectation that application of CAR 3 requirements to an airframe designed under CAR 4a should convey the higher (1400#) gross weight allowable to the earlier and already existing design. The CAA/FAA most assuredly did not agree when it came time for such official approval(s).
The suggestion of John Cooper (Skyport) that "Aircraft Specification" is the precursor to "Type Certificate Data Sheet." would seem correct.
I don't think these wording differences relate to building individual aircraft conforming to either TCDS as opposed to building a bunch of aircraft under a Production Certificate.
Erco had a CAA designee fly acceptance on every airframe they ever produced, and I believe this continued through Forney and Alon production. Anyone have specific information otherwise? Only Mooney, already so producing other models of their 1969 line, would have had a relatively easy changeover to build under a "production certificate"; and I don't know if they did or not. Anyone else know?
Regards,
William R. Bayne
<____|-(o)-|____>
(Copyright 2004)
--
On Feb 1, 2006, at 11:45, Ed Burkhead wrote:
Roy Stubbs wrote:
> The 415-C and C/D models were built according to
> AIRCRAFT SPECIFICATION NO. A-718, while the D model
> and higher, including Forney, Alon, etc., are certificated
> under TYPE CERTIFICATE DATA SHEET NO. A-787.
> The difference is all in the name of the document. A-718 is
> not a Type Certificate, A-787 is a Type Certificate.
>
> According to my A&P/IA the 415-C and C/D models,
> therefore, were each individually inspected for airworthiness
> by the FAA rep at the factory because A-718 is not a Type
> Certificate, only a Specification. And, that is why each one
> can be a little bit different.
Roy,
He may be on to something interesting there. I had been calling both Aircraft Specification and I see I was wrong. In A-787, as reference from my Coupe web page, it does say, TYPE CERTIFICATE DATA SHEET NO. A-787 as youre a&P/IA pointed out. My website is now updated.
Does anyone else know anything about the ramifications of this difference?
Ed Burkhead
On Feb 1, 2006, at 12:30, John Cooper wrote:
I may be wrong, but I think "Aircraft Specification" is the precursor to "Type Certificate Data Sheet." What I think was being referred to is the difference between building individual aircraft conforming to the TCDS and building a bunch of aircraft under a Production Certificate. The former must each be inspected for conformity while the latter do not.
John Cooper, A&P
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