[COUPERS-TECH] NOW: New Parts and Univair Was: Header Fuel Tank AD 55-22-02, part 2

[A DeMarzo]

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Harmut;

You have absolutely no idea the pure hell that companies go through for certification of a single part.  I do!  Okay, place it in your shirt pocket.  With that said, I'm not too sure that Univair had to jump through FAA hoops to get the spars manufactured, (if anyone has facts, please post and keep specs with you unless proven) but I am sure that they were costly to construct.  To that mix you must add absolutely asinine product liability costs.  I'll bet that they only made a handful, hence the ridiculous price.  Remember they're not producing airplanes, so there is no volume discount for the parts.  Those that sold for $6K were from the 40's, so that's why they're in business.

 

Several years ago it was rumored that they would consider selling the TC, but the owner of Univair didn't find anyone he thought worthwhile to sell to, as he would have liked to see a production run.  I'm sure if a few million were put on table me, you, us, etc. could be the owner, but would it be worth it to sell parts to a few guys and airplanes to a few more?  Not really, as the new company would then be taking on the liability of all the Ercoupes out there (yes, regardless of the new rule you may have read about).  This is something you would have to be a fool to do with the record of maintenance many have.  Now if you would like to manufacture new parts, you need to jump through hoops.  For what you spend, and how long it takes for a return on investment on a small number of aircraft, you may as well just put your money into a passbook savings account and feel rich after 10 years.

 

What someone needs to realize and capitalize on (wink, wink, nod, nod, you can guess who's doing it now) is to help owners produce parts that are no longer readily available, under the rules Uncle FAA has provided.  The mass accepted interpretation of the rule is certainly a stretch and is steeped in opinion, so I'll not tell you mine because I know the original intent of the ruling, but as long as it's accepted, go with it.  Computer based CAD programs cut the cost of manufacturing parts pretty low, and that will be the key for the future.  For example, how many of you would buy a new aluminum bottom engine cowling if it was about 1/2 the price?  What about a new aluminum nose bowl at the same ratio?  If it ain't about 50 each, it doesn't make sense for someone to start a production run and bend the metal to a point where a little cutting and fitting would make it work.  I could have a nosebowl punched out in a week, then another 20 minutes each for production.  IS THERE A MARKET OUT THERE?  I say no.

 

Now, if the Ercoupe was produced today my guess it would sell for about $85,000, based on the other classics that have been re-released.  What we need to realize is that we're now buying parts for airplanes that are $85K, not the $10K we bought them for or they're really worth.  When I buy parts for my Bonanza from Beech, they're the same parts that go into new $650,000 airplanes.  At a bit over 1/10th the price of a new one sits mine.  If I want to fly it, I buy or make.  If not, it sits and rots.   

 

What I would really like to see is an Ercoupe kit!  I have the feeling that it would go together in half the time it takes to build an RV-7 and cost a little bit more.  Rag wings and all!  Wouldn't that be grand?

 

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Hartmut Beil

To: Ed Burkhead ; Ctech

Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 5:08 PM

Subject: Re: [COUPERS-TECH] Header Fuel Tank AD 55-22-02, part 2

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Yes extrusions are used for all spar caps. In the center and the wings. I know there are companies in LA that can produce the best aluminum extrusion for a reasonable price. I have no idea what the FAA certification process might cost, but my experience tells me that the management of Univair messed up here big time. Also why are these center spars now almost 10k when they had been produced a few years ago for 6-8 k and sit on the shelf since. I know. Univair uses a very expensive shelf system.

No I don't buy that Ed. I think a Company like Univair is having a responsibility as a TC holder.

What I see is that they add tremendously to the costs of flying.

 

Hartmut

----- Original Message -----

From: Ed Burkhead

To: 'Hartmut Beil' ; Ctech

Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 11:51 PM

Subject: RE: [COUPERS-TECH] Header Fuel Tank AD 55-22-02, part 2

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Hartmut wrote:

> How the heck do you explain the newly built 10k center spar?

> What are the costs involved?

>  

> They've got the jig, the steel and aluminum pieces you need

> are worth max. $250. Now add the costs for a worker that

> rivets the stuff together. 4 hours of work @ 100 bucks an

> hour, add costs for shipping and other expenses - a center

> spar should not cost more than 1500 Dollars to produce.

> I really would like to know where the costs factor comes in

> here. What is up with this company? I am having the feeling

> they are overpricing us because some executives are

> working on their early retirement.

 

Hartmut,

 

ERCO’s business was in making fancy automated aircraft metal fabrication tools.

 

I don’t know that they used any Ercoupe specific tools to make the spar caps.  I suspect they might have just used some of their other shop equipment to make those spar caps.  Those tools may not have been sold along with the other Ercoupe specific tools and jigs.

 

This is based on a 10-15 year old memory that’s pretty vague:  I think I’ve heard it mentioned that the problem with making new spars is that there are no tools available to Univair to make those spar caps (weren’t they extrusions?).  They’d have to contract with some aviation supply company, get samples made, get them certified then get the production run.

 

The total cost may be several times what seems “reasonable” if this is true.

 

Up to now, hasn’t there been a big enough supply of good, salvaged spars to take care of the demand?

 

Ed

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