I'VE GOT MY FIRE EXTINGUISHER HANDY SO COME ON......
After watching the Lufthansa incident, I am of the opinion that the PIC should probably be indicted on felony stupid charges. The only reason there weren't 100+ fatalities is because it wasn't their time to die and a small bit of plain old fashioned luck! This guy was no hero; he's just damned lucky that his 'get there-it is' and hard headed determination to end an approach in a landing did not cost some innocent people their lives. Let's think about it: he had more than an hour of fuel on board, no emergency situation necessitating an immediate landing and he decided to try to land with a 100MPH crosswind???? There's a reason each and every one of us is taught 'go arounds' and there is a reason behind all the discussion on aeronautical decision making. Yes, the airline has a schedule to keep. Yes, people want to be on time and hate delays; but I would much rather arrive late than become "the late.." Just my nickel's worth. Tommy ________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of robertbartunek Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 3:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Fwd: RE: [ercoupe-tech] Re: Importance of training in crosswind situations --- In [email protected] <mailto:ercoupe-tech%40yahoogroups.com> , john brier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ed, You really need to look at the Lufthansa landing video again. The sequence is not as you describe. And la te da, I too flew an airplane for several years that used the crab landing in a crosswind as a mandatory technique. You seem to think the Ercoupe is the be-all end- all airplane for crosswind landings and I say it is not, except in fairly light crosswinds i.e., less than 15 knots. > Note: forwarded message attached. > > > Best regards, John Brier > > You guys have it right. I am type rated in the Boeing 747 and flew them for a number of years with a major airline. The reason the wing down method isn't used in any four engine aircraft is because the #1 or #4 engine, depending on the direction of the cross wind, will drag. Happened to a friend of mine while making a very tough landing, low on fuel and thunderstorm in the vicinity. He ended up with a complete simulator check ride and the feds dogged him for months. Not fun. > > When I first flew my coupe with the seller instructing me the first thing I exclaimed on final was that you flew it just like the the 747!! He thought I was a little nuts till I explained what I meant. Same rule of thumb, just keep the damn thing in the middle of the runway, wings level and let id do it's thing. I have a Forney and the airplane sits correctly, correct height etc. > > N26C, Lakeland, Fla. > > Ed Burkhead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Robert, > > I'll agree with Bill here. > > You wrote: > > When you watch the Lufthansa landing depicted on the news > > and You Tube, the hairy part starts when the upwind wing > > comes up just after the pilot tries to kick the crab out prior > > to touchdown. > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O8CjKBsCEo <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O8CjKBsCEo> > > The last I heard, airliners like the one shown don't "kick out" the crab > before touchdown. They touchdown in the crab, fully Ercoupe style. > > This pilot was not in control of the plane. At about one wingspan high, he > was drifting left so he lowered the right wing (too far) to correct. By the > time he reached the centerline, he had a right-ward vector that would have > taken him off the runway - so he raised the right wing (too far) to > compensate and the wind pushed him WAY too far left. Then, he dropped the > right wing WAY too far to compensate and something sprays back from either > the right wingtip touch or right engine blast just above the ground. > > Finally, the pilot does the go around and, we presume, gets it right on the > next try. > > > The Ercoupe displays that same characteristic even when landing in a > > crab because you must steer downwind after touchdown to keep the > > aircraft from weathervaning further into the wind on landing rollout. > > This would be true if you land too fast. As Fred Weick emphasized, > touchdown should be at the minimum possible speed. > > In gusty conditions, I did add airspeed to my normal final approach speed. > But, I found that even in blustery, gusty conditions, once I got down to a > yard or two high, the ground effect dampened any roll. I could slow the > plane in low ground effect with confidence, raising the nose until I touched > down at a fairly low speed. > > With the plane's gear properly maintained and the window sill level on the > ground, there's so little lift that wing lift isn't a problem. Combining > that with Bob Sanders's procedure of stomping on the brake right after > touchdown to dump more speed, there's no problem with wing lift. The wing > is at low angle of attack and is also well below flying speed. > > Taxiing at low speeds doesn't make for wing lift either. > > Not only was Bob Sanders the distributor of the Ercoupes when ERCO quit > doing so, but he was an aeronautical engineer on the design team and test > pilot for the development of the Ercoupe. He knows that of which he speaks. > > Here are the words of Fred Weick and Bob Sanders: > http://edburkhead.com/Ercoupe/coupe_landings.htm <http://edburkhead.com/Ercoupe/coupe_landings.htm> > linked from my page: http://edburkhead.com/Ercoupe/coupe_flying.htm <http://edburkhead.com/Ercoupe/coupe_flying.htm> > > My strongest crosswind operations were in the close ballpark of 30 mph > direct crosswind or a bit higher with no problem. Been there (repeatedly), > done that (repeatedly), got the T-shirt (several). > > Ed Burkhead > http://edburkhead.com/Ercoupe/index.htm <http://edburkhead.com/Ercoupe/index.htm> East Peoria, Illinois > ed -at- edbur???khead.??com (remove the ? marks and change -at- > to @) > > > > > > > Best regards, John Brier >
