I translated part of the landing story and looked at the diagram. First, the wind speed was in Kilometers per hour and was about 104 or 60+ MPH. Second, the winds loft were much slower - about half of the ground speed. As it came down it suddenly encountered greatly increased cross wind speed. Most likely the result of a front moving in rapidly. I suspect that most coupes would have been blown out of the picture to the left. Mike @C35
--- In [email protected], "JThomas Terry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'VE GOT MY FIRE EXTINGUISHER HANDY SO COME ON...... > > > > After watching the Lufthansa incident, I am of the opinion that the PIC > should probably be indicted on felony stupid charges. The only reason > there weren't 100+ fatalities is because it wasn't their time to die and > a small bit of plain old fashioned luck! > > This guy was no hero; he's just damned lucky that his 'get there-it is' > and hard headed determination to end an approach in a landing did not > cost some innocent people their lives. > > > > Let's think about it: he had more than an hour of fuel on board, no > emergency situation necessitating an immediate landing and he decided to > try to land with a 100MPH crosswind???? There's a reason each and > every one of us is taught 'go arounds' and there is a reason behind all > the discussion on aeronautical decision making. > > > > Yes, the airline has a schedule to keep. Yes, people want to be on time > and hate delays; but I would much rather arrive late than become "the > late.." > > > > Just my nickel's worth. > > > > Tommy > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: [email protected] [mailto:ercoupe- [EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of robertbartunek > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 3:21 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Fwd: RE: [ercoupe-tech] Re: Importance of training in crosswind > situations > > > > --- In [email protected] > <mailto:ercoupe-tech%40yahoogroups.com> , john brier <johnbriersr@> > wrote: > > > > Ed, > You really need to look at the Lufthansa landing video again. The > sequence is not as you describe. And la te da, I too flew an airplane > for several years that used the crab landing in a crosswind as a > mandatory technique. You seem to think the Ercoupe is the be-all end- > all airplane for crosswind landings and I say it is not, except in > fairly light crosswinds i.e., less than 15 knots. > > > Note: forwarded message attached. > > > > > > Best regards, John Brier > > > > You guys have it right. I am type rated in the Boeing 747 and flew > them for a number of years with a major airline. The reason the wing > down method isn't used in any four engine aircraft is because the #1 > or #4 engine, depending on the direction of the cross wind, will > drag. Happened to a friend of mine while making a very tough landing, > low on fuel and thunderstorm in the vicinity. He ended up with a > complete simulator check ride and the feds dogged him for months. Not > fun. > > > > When I first flew my coupe with the seller instructing me the > first thing I exclaimed on final was that you flew it just like the > the 747!! He thought I was a little nuts till I explained what I > meant. Same rule of thumb, just keep the damn thing in the middle of > the runway, wings level and let id do it's thing. I have a Forney and > the airplane sits correctly, correct height etc. > > > > N26C, Lakeland, Fla. > > > > Ed Burkhead <edburkhead@> wrote: > > > > Robert, > > > > I'll agree with Bill here. > > > > You wrote: > > > When you watch the Lufthansa landing depicted on the news > > > and You Tube, the hairy part starts when the upwind wing > > > comes up just after the pilot tries to kick the crab out prior > > > to touchdown. > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O8CjKBsCEo > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O8CjKBsCEo> > > > > The last I heard, airliners like the one shown don't "kick out" the > crab > > before touchdown. They touchdown in the crab, fully Ercoupe style. > > > > This pilot was not in control of the plane. At about one wingspan > high, he > > was drifting left so he lowered the right wing (too far) to > correct. By the > > time he reached the centerline, he had a right-ward vector that > would have > > taken him off the runway - so he raised the right wing (too far) to > > compensate and the wind pushed him WAY too far left. Then, he > dropped the > > right wing WAY too far to compensate and something sprays back from > either > > the right wingtip touch or right engine blast just above the ground. > > > > Finally, the pilot does the go around and, we presume, gets it > right on the > > next try. > > > > > The Ercoupe displays that same characteristic even when landing > in a > > > crab because you must steer downwind after touchdown to keep the > > > aircraft from weathervaning further into the wind on landing > rollout. > > > > This would be true if you land too fast. As Fred Weick emphasized, > > touchdown should be at the minimum possible speed. > > > > In gusty conditions, I did add airspeed to my normal final approach > speed. > > But, I found that even in blustery, gusty conditions, once I got > down to a > > yard or two high, the ground effect dampened any roll. I could slow > the > > plane in low ground effect with confidence, raising the nose until > I touched > > down at a fairly low speed. > > > > With the plane's gear properly maintained and the window sill level > on the > > ground, there's so little lift that wing lift isn't a problem. > Combining > > that with Bob Sanders's procedure of stomping on the brake right > after > > touchdown to dump more speed, there's no problem with wing lift. > The wing > > is at low angle of attack and is also well below flying speed. > > > > Taxiing at low speeds doesn't make for wing lift either. > > > > Not only was Bob Sanders the distributor of the Ercoupes when ERCO > quit > > doing so, but he was an aeronautical engineer on the design team > and test > > pilot for the development of the Ercoupe. He knows that of which he > speaks. > > > > Here are the words of Fred Weick and Bob Sanders: > > http://edburkhead.com/Ercoupe/coupe_landings.htm > <http://edburkhead.com/Ercoupe/coupe_landings.htm> > > linked from my page: http://edburkhead.com/Ercoupe/coupe_flying.htm > <http://edburkhead.com/Ercoupe/coupe_flying.htm> > > > > My strongest crosswind operations were in the close ballpark of 30 > mph > > direct crosswind or a bit higher with no problem. Been there > (repeatedly), > > done that (repeatedly), got the T-shirt (several). > > > > Ed Burkhead > > http://edburkhead.com/Ercoupe/index.htm > <http://edburkhead.com/Ercoupe/index.htm> East Peoria, Illinois > > ed -at- edbur???khead.??com (remove the ? marks and change -at- > > to @) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, John Brier > > >
