On Dec 21, 2010, at 10:14 PM, Brendan Eich wrote: > On Dec 21, 2010, at 10:03 PM, Alex Russell wrote: > >>> This is not a relevant fear in my view. It's also kind of silly given all >>> the open source JS libraries. If someone did over-freeze, you could stop >>> using their library, or fork and fix it. Libraries that suck tend to die >>> fast. >> >> That's...an *interesting* reading of recent history. > > What recent history? Please cite some specifics. > > ES5 isn't even implemented in final versions of shipping browsers, so overuse > of its Object.freeze can't be a historical fact yet. > > >>> Mark did bring up freezing primordials recently, and I know that causes >>> some "Dr. Freeze" fear (even on this list the other year, from Arv, IIRC). >> >> And from me right this minute. > > What are you afraid of? > > >>> Nevertheless, it's simply not credible that we on TC39 will agree to freeze >>> primordials in any ECMA-262 edition I can foresee. >>> >>> Sometimes fear is an appropriate reaction. The lamb fears the wolf. When >>> some overwhelming force threatens you, be afraid. But there is no Freeze >>> Force both willing and able to take over the JS world. >>> >>> We don't need to be afraid of well-used immutability for safety and >>> parallelization. Such filter-pipeline architectures do need weak maps or >>> better to associate filter-specific fields with shared immutable data. >> >> So long as the application of freezing is restricted to the uses at hand and >> doesn't find its way into the drinking water (ice-nine style). > > I've used that metaphor, it is apt when transitively freezing a graph, while > developing your freeze-based code. > > As a runaway that freezes the web, forever? C'mon. It's not even plausible as > a worm vector, let alone a standardization mistake that developers reject. > I'm not sure what we are talking about at this point (I hope not "Cat's > Cradle").
I fear APIs that freeze, only take frozen objects or only have versions that do, or are so mutability-hostile that they warp our use of the language toward frozen-by-default constructs. Those are the sorts of things that spread it. -- Alex Russell slightly...@google.com slightly...@chromium.org a...@dojotoolkit.org BE03 E88D EABB 2116 CC49 8259 CF78 E242 59C3 9723 _______________________________________________ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
