naveen, how are es modules or generators superior in getting a frontend product shipped? "powerful" does not equate superior.
success in shipping a product correlates highly to having maintainable code (with consistent styguide) that's easy to debug. generators are a nightmare to debug (compared to callbacks and promises) when doing integration and qa. es modules have confusing async-magic that few frontend devs really understand, and results in brittle module-loading code nobody wants to touch and risk breaking after its written. the es6+ projects i've worked on all have significant amounts of brittleness which leads to them being difficult-to-ship as features could not be added or modified without fear of code-changes breaking something. 2016 and 2017 have been rough years for anyone trying to get es6+ products shipped. and i suspect it will remain the same for 2018. if you're a product manager and your priority is to ship a frontend product, then your safest bet is to avoid es6 altogether. On 10/27/17, Naveen Chawla <[email protected]> wrote: > kai zhu, it sounds like you have a bad manager who is over eagerly pushing > for a disruptive transition in a well established ES5 project to new > features. The way to gracefully introduce the new features is incrementally > in new code, not existing code, or when modifying existing code. If your > manager is pushing to translate the whole code base and you are finding > that a waste of time, then that is not the fault of TC39 or the language; > that is the fault of the manager. > > The features themselves are superior, more powerful and easier to use than > the former ES5, so "everyday javascript programmers" will have a better > time whether they are writing tiny or massive apps. > > Yes, new apps should use those features immediately, and the developers > will experience the benefits, sometimes very significant > > > On Fri, 27 Oct 2017, 11:52 am kai zhu, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> in frontend-development, the majority of use-cases are for >> small/medium-scale applications, where es6 toolings are inappropriate >> due to their complexity. >> >> "reliable, well-engineered, large-scale, performant applications" are >> a niche application of javascript. tc39 should focus on making lives >> of everyday javascript programmers easier (who mainly want simple and >> stable tooling for simple/moderate webapps), instead of catering to >> niche people wanting google/facebook-scale apps. >> >> >> On 10/27/17, Bob Myers <[email protected]> wrote: >> > If you don't like those features or the associated tooling, then don't >> use >> > them. >> > Meanwhile, other people will be using them to build reliable, >> > well-engineered, large-scale, performant applications. >> > Bob >> > >> > On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 10:57 AM, kai zhu <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >> tc39 is partly to blame for promoting the perception of javascript >> >> language instability, which promotes tooling instability. >> >> >> >> generators, es modules, destructing, let, fat arrows have caused >> >> tremendous harm to tooling stability, which has made >> >> frontend-development hell for everyone. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 10/27/17, Jordan Harband <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > aka "how it feels to learn"? >> >> > >> >> > A decent response: >> >> > https://medium.com/front-end-hacking/how-it-feels-to-learn- >> >> javascript-in-2017-a934b801fbe >> >> > >> >> > On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 3:38 PM, J Decker <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> (humor?) >> >> >> https://hackernoon.com/how-it-feels-to-learn-javascript-in- >> >> 2016- >> >> >> d3a717dd577f >> >> >> >> >> >> It all seemed so simple.... >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> es-discuss mailing list >> >> >> [email protected] >> >> >> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> es-discuss mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss >> >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> es-discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ es-discuss mailing list [email protected] https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
