Michael Hudson wrote:
Martijn Faassen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

In Zope 3, a lot of effort was taken to allow the integration of
Pythonic code. Zope 3's codebase itself is also a lot more modern
Python, so could qualify as "Pythonic" as well. Unfortunately
turn-offs for Python developers new to Zope 3 are ZCML

Bloody hell yes.
and the sheer magnitude of the framework and the amount of new
concepts involved. I believe something like ZCML is necessary,

That something like ZCML is necessary to deploy large systems I'm not
prepared to dispute, but that it (seems to be?  currently?) is
necessary to do even toy development with zope 3 is a serious turn
off.

Agreed -- there has been some work on a bobo for Zope 3 that might fix this. I haven't checked it out myself, but it might be fun to experiment with this to see how far we can take this.


One main problem with Zope 3 right now is that the initial learning curve to get a "Hello world" going is too big; too much framework stuff needs to be done, even though the framework stuff *is* separated out from the Python code.

When I got to the point in the Zope 3 Book where it says "simply type
these 70 lines of XML into browser/configure.zcml" I might have thrown
it out of the window if I wasn't reading it in PDF :)

Heh, I can imagine that. It's also not didactically correct; the minimal amount of ZCML needed to get *something* going can be cut down to, I think, 4 or 5 lines. :)


Shane Hathaway put it very neatly in:

    http://hathawaymix.org/Weblog/2005-01-26

(especially his comment).

I guess this is known, and Zope 3 will get there in the end.

Repeating this can't hurt at all; I believe it certainly won't hurt anything if the core developers get signals like this more often.


Regards,

Martijn
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