strange place to be having this conversation... Martijn Faassen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Michael Hudson wrote: >> Martijn Faassen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> >>>In Zope 3, a lot of effort was taken to allow the integration of >>>Pythonic code. Zope 3's codebase itself is also a lot more modern >>>Python, so could qualify as "Pythonic" as well. Unfortunately >>> turn-offs for Python developers new to Zope 3 are ZCML >> Bloody hell yes. >> >>>and the sheer magnitude of the framework and the amount of new >>> concepts involved. I believe something like ZCML is necessary, > >> That something like ZCML is necessary to deploy large systems I'm not >> prepared to dispute, but that it (seems to be? currently?) is >> necessary to do even toy development with zope 3 is a serious turn >> off. > > Agreed -- there has been some work on a bobo for Zope 3 that might > fix this. I haven't checked it out myself, but it might be fun to > experiment with this to see how far we can take this. Is this the jim-bobo branch? Seems fairly quiet... > One main problem with Zope 3 right now is that the initial learning > curve to get a "Hello world" going is too big; Yes. Hardly "instant gratification"... > too much framework stuff needs to be done, even though the framework > stuff *is* separated out from the Python code. > >> When I got to the point in the Zope 3 Book where it says "simply type >> these 70 lines of XML into browser/configure.zcml" I might have thrown >> it out of the window if I wasn't reading it in PDF :) > > Heh, I can imagine that. It's also not didactically correct; the > minimal amount of ZCML needed to get *something* going can be cut down > to, I think, 4 or 5 lines. :) Oh! >> Shane Hathaway put it very neatly in: >> http://hathawaymix.org/Weblog/2005-01-26 >> (especially his comment). >> I guess this is known, and Zope 3 will get there in the end. > > Repeating this can't hurt at all; I believe it certainly won't hurt > anything if the core developers get signals like this more often. Well, I'm currently lurking on zope3-users & -dev (via gmane). Not sure I have the energy to dive in right now... Cheers, mwh -- But maybe I've just programmed in enough different languages to assume that they are, in fact, different. -- Tony J Ibbs explains why Python isn't Java on comp.lang.python _______________________________________________ EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
