On 1 Feb 2014, at 20:36, Paul Boddie wrote:
I'd actually rather cap the number of attendees than raise prices.
I find this an unfortunate line of though; EuroPython is the *only*
explicitly European Python conference.
That just isn't true. Take a look at http://www.pycon.org/ to see
several
European Python conferences.
Please point them out to me, I see only EuroSciPy and regional ones.
On this point you *can* compare the situation to that of seven or more
years
ago, or perhaps as far back as the first EuroPython conference (which
is
before my time), because back then it wasn't certain that there was
enough
interest in a Python conference in many places. Now, you have around
ten
general Python conferences and a bunch of specialised Python
conferences
merely in Europe and not including EuroPython.
Yeah that’s the point, isn’t it? We *do* have smaller regional
ones; but I see the demand for a big pan-European one.
Keeping it artificially small just makes it either less interesting
or
simply elitist.
There are plenty of options when it comes to attending small
conferences.
Exactly!
So why should EuroPython become artificially another one?
If
people pitch EuroPython as the "premier" conference that people aspire
to go
to, and then the attendance is capped, then perhaps claims of elitism
are
valid. What I find refreshing, however, is that despite the promotion
of large
conferences like PyCon as being "the one to go to", there appears to
be a
vibrant emerging scene of alternatives.
There is, and that’s exactly my point: we *do* have small conferences
(and they are getting more).
And I sincerely doubt that smaller conferences are less interesting.
I didn’t say that, did I?
I would
consider going to a number of them if I weren't so lazy. PyCon UK and
PyCon
Italia are both apparently very good. PyCon DE also seems very solid.
This is interesting because PyCon DE was way more expensive in the past
years than EP.
EP is one of the cheapest conferences I’ve attended so far (only
beaten by RuPy 2012 which is much shorter and took place at an
University in a cheap country). Comparing prices from now and
*seven*
years ago is neither fair nor reasonable. The same goes for
attendance
numbers: the Python community in 2014 is very different from the one
in
2008.
It certainly is different: there are more interested people and, as a
consequence, there are more conferences to choose from.
Exactly. That’s why we need at least one big conference in Europe.
I very much prefer the current approach of growing and giving out
grants
to people who can’t afford attending on their own than denying the
EP–experience to hundreds of people completely.
I think it's useful to discuss what the "EP-experience" is. Is it a
thousand-
plus people in a "bet the farm" mega-event or is it something smaller
and more
manageable? Is it a once a year thing or should there be many events
throughout the year? Is it an "eyes forward" conventional conference
or an
unconference? Does it even matter if it's called EuroPython?
If a conference is called “EuroPython”, I certainly expect something
different than from a regional one. For example, that most of the
schedule is in English.
See it that way: for me and many others conferences are mostly about
people. If I have to attend three conferences instead of one to meet
all my Internet friends, it gets more expensive very fast. And big
confs also attract our friends from overseas, it’s very nice to see
them more than once a year.
The EPS will have to decide whether they just want to be a cheap
get-together for a small cabal or Europe’s answer to PyCon US/NA.
If
it’s the former, I can only hope an alternative will form from
within
the organizers of the past years.
It's not a purely a choice between a PyCon mega-event and an elitist
get-
together, as I've noted above. Indeed, Europe has once again shown the
way
with regard to establishing community conferences that most probably
provide
the necessary capacity for those wanting to attend a conference,
whatever
their preferences are.
It certainly is for a particular conference (EP in this case). Nobody
is arguing that *every* conference should aspire to grow like PyCon US.
But I’m going to argue that downsizing an established conference is a
waste and the wrong step.
We have enough cheap and small conferences; the hard task is to run a
big
one in a proper way without ripping people off O’Reilly-style.
I thought you said there weren't any other European Python
conferences. ;-)
I wrote “explicitly European Python”. RuPy is about Ruby and JS, the
rest is regional or sciency.
The unfortunate thing about big conferences, however, is that they
cost a lot
of money to put on, and you'll be leaning even more on a lot of
volunteers to
keep the prices down. There are, of course, big European community
conferences
that seem to manage this, and maybe their expertise can be drawn upon
to do
the same for a Python-specific event.
It all goes down to exploiting volunteers.
If you're interested in running a big conference and doing so without
ripping
people off, I'm sure people would welcome your involvement. But as I'm
sure
you know already, large conference or small conference, you'll be
investing a
fair amount of your own time just to keep the costs down and to make
it all
happen.
I’m not sure what you’re arguing for or against; because you’re
basically just validating what I was saying?
There have been claims that we should cap the size in the future so we
get cheaper so everybody can attend financially (but not realistically
because of the artificial limit). I was arguing against that. Neither
did I say that small conferences are without merit, nor did I voice
disapproval with the organizers of EP14. All I’m saying is that there
is a need for a big European conference and it would be sad if EP threw
away its reputation it built in Florence and tried to become a small
conference with a big name.
—h
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