Sheer wrote:

> My hunch is that even at 80% DOD I can do 0-60 in 14 fully
> loaded. (well, it depends on how heavy the passengers are.. 
> but four people my weight? Sure.)

Nope, the numbers disagree.  We've been through this before; with the
NiZn voltage sag at 3C as soon as you get more than about 5% discharged,
your available battery power is about 77hp.  Assuming QM is about
2500lbs with you (alone) onboard, Jeremy's acceleration spreadsheet
predicts about 14.8s.  Now add 3 more people and try it at 80%DOD...

You'd have to do a test to tell for sure, of course.

> My car has 500 lbs of 'legit' overhead in the GVWR, which is
> enough for 3.1 passengers my weight. However, I've driven it 
> with four people in it and the sky did not fall. I don't 
> think the extra 1-200 lbs is significant, because I think 
> that if I know Honda, they designed in a 'safety factor' of 
> about 500 lbs beyond the weight rating for the inevitable 
> college-student-moving-experience the car was bound to experience.
> 
> Now, with all due respect, please drop the weight issue. Or
> I'll start pointing out many, many successful EVs in the EV 
> photo album that appear to have completely ignored the GVWR 
> and seem to still be rolling.

My comment was worded as a question specifically because I could not
recall how close your particular conversion was to GVWR, but was
reasonably sure that with 4 people onboard it would be at or over.

The weight issue isn't going to go away anytime soon; it is a legitimate
concern.  One must assume the manufacturer assigns that number to the
vehicle for good reason(s), and any conversion that ignores it and
consistently operates at or over the GVWR cannot be considered an
example of something acceptable for widespread use by the general
public.  I'm glad to hear that you have planned your conversion to allow
for a driver and passenger or two or cargo without exceeding its GVWR,
however, as you note, it is all too easy to point out examples of
conversions that are at or over GVWR before the driver even gets in.
Sure, they work and don't fall apart imeediately, but I suspect part of
what lets them sneak by is that most of them are not capable of highway
speed operation for the distances QM is, so they may tend to operate
mostly at lower speeds or on surface streets, or for shorter distances,
so that the greatly reduced safety margins with respect to handling,
braking, acceleration, etc. have less opportunity to contribute to a
tragedy.

> About the only place I can think of where battery temp
> management would be essential with NiZn, from what I've seen 
> of it, would be Las Vegas and places with similar weather.

I think most of the [North] American mid-west would require thermal
management: the winter temperatures are well outside of the operating
range for NiZn, and even when they aren't the pack capacity would be
reduced; summer/daytime temperatures can easily get high enough to
require cooling in order to permit charging.  IMHO, it just isn't
plug-and-play unless you can plug it in anytime, anywhere and safely
charge.

> With a NaNiCl pack, I think we can safely say a 100,000mi + life.

I thought so too, but when I ran the numbers it came up short.  The
problem is that MES-DEA only rates it at 1000 cycles to 100%DOD, even
though they have lab data indicating 1600 cycles (and counting).  They
say they will only update the rated life when they have more statistical
data.

>  I don't know about you, but I don't want to drive a car that
> does 0-60 in 24 seconds. It would probably be acceptable in 
> most of europe, but in many U.S. cities you would get run 
> over. ;-) Well, okay, I exadurate a little bit, but it 
> certainly wouldn't be very much fun to drive.

You've never driven a Type 2 VW have you? ;^>  I replaced my '70 Type 2
with a newer, characterless North American car a year or two ago and
miss the VW terribly, even though it probably couldn't do 0-60 in even
24s.  Can a [stock] Beetle even do 0-60 in much under 24s?  Lots of
these cars (Type 1 and 2) on the road worldwide, and their owners
generally seem to find them very fun to drive... it is certainly a
different experience, but still fun ;^>

> It would still, however, have less range than QM.

Perhaps, but not necessarily by much.  I WAGged 250Wh/mi for the NaNiCl
Sprint to get >60mi range, but I notice you report 160-200Wh/mi for QM
(with you alone onboard).  The lighter Sprint with its slightly higher
pack voltage would likely get similar efficiency, and this pushes the
range up to a similar 80-100mi usable range as you report for QM.

Please understand that it is not my intent to bash QM here; it is
certainly the closest conversion to meeting the stated requirements that
I know of, however, it does still miss by more than just expected pack
life.

Cheers,

Roger.

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