EV Digest 2381
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Crest Archives
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) OT: A humorous exchange
by Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Saramento Racing
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) PWM/Frequency effects on batteries?
by Mason Convey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Saramento Racing
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Electric Jeep?
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Electric Jeep?
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Electric Jeep?
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Meaningful Flags was:OT-huffington article
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Electric Jeep?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Saramento Racing
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Aspire weight
by "PETER VANDERWAL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) What are the odds?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: What kind of Hair Dryer for DC Defrost/Heat..
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Meaningful Flags was:OT-huffington article
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Meaningful Flags was:OT-huffington article
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: For Sale at any Price?...NOT!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Electric Jeep?
by "Christopher Meier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Epiphany on Range Issue
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Z car conversion
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Z car conversion
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
I am still planning to provide a noncommercial, searchable, long-term
archive with posts back to 1996. I have the resources in hand, but I
haven't had time to work on it for several months. Sorry gang. It WILL
happen eventually.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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Bob the service guy and Fred the (redneck) manager were talking in the hall
when I showed up for work this morning. Bob says "Hey, I've got a DC motor
for you". Goes and gets me a nice little 90V gearhead motor that he took
out of one of the gamma cameras. "Cool, I can motorize the observatory
roof". Fred: "That's the difference between you and me. You play with DC
motors, I kill moose." Mike: "Yeah, but high voltage DC can kill a
moose". Fred: "But that's no fun!" Mike "Sure it is, you can have your
steak and eat it too."
Mike Hoskinson
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November 2 is coming up ,Sacramento is the place.Oakley sunglasses for any
NEDRA member setting a new record. Anyone coming?
mainfuse
Hi Brian,
I plan on being there with my 914, California Poppy.
No big improvements yet so I'll have to think of something quick.
Rich Brown is getting dangerously close to my record and I can't have that! :-)
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
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I understand that pulse width modulation (PWM) is at the heart of many
of the "pulse chargers" that EVers have discussed over the
years... some saying they work and many saying they don't do
anything. But I'm trying to quantify PWM's effects with respect to
load testing a battery (for my senior design project) and determine
the ideal window of frequencies to operate this PWM at. Something
tells me it can't be as easy as just throwing a huge cap across the
battery to smooth out the load. Is this all there is to it when using
a PWM motor controller? Nothing more? Even so, the operating frequency
is still to be decided. Does anyone have any ideas on where I might
turn to find some good info on PWM, frequency, and the corresponding
battery behavior?
Thanks!
mason
-~-~- mason s. convey -~-~-
website. http://www.1opossum.com
pager.voicemail. 602.422.7996. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
email. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
AOL Messenger. mtnbikeAZ
Yahoo! Messenger. mtnbike_az
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Bill and I will be there with his car, he is installing a new battery pack
this weekend
www.lasvegasev.com
Richard Furniss
Las Vegas, NV
1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
Board Member, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian D. Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev post" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 9:15 AM
Subject: Saramento Racing
> November 2 is coming up ,Sacramento is the place.Oakley sunglasses for any
> NEDRA member setting a new record. Anyone coming?
> mainfuse
>
>
--- End Message ---
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I doubt that the range difference is as much as 10 percent.
The extra parts needed for 4WD will add 5 to10% to the
vehicles weight. This requires extra power when hill
climbing and acceleration, but not when running at constant
speed on the level. Most 4WD vehicles (not all)
completely disconnect the unused axle when in 2WD.
My main concern would be the extra weight. The less a
vehicle weighs before it gets laden with batteries the better.
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Vince" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: Electric Jeep?
> Mine doesn"t leak but I removed the front wheel drive 4-wheel drive unit
to
> drop 175 pounds and i was told by Otmar that it would reduce my range by
10%
> but there are sometimes when i wish i kept it in. It all depends on how
> range challenged you are in getting to and from work. Does anyone have
exact
> range/efficiency numbers for 4-W vs 2-W drive? (when it's left in 2-wheel
> drive of course.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: Electric Jeep?
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> >
> > One of the woodburn races ('99?) had a scratch built jeep. I think it
> > used a home made frame with a vw transmission and a fiberglass body.
> > As I recall they were thinking about going into production.
>
> Yes, I think it was Patrick DonEgan's. I've seen it; a very nice
> scratch-built EV!
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Yes it was Patrick Donegan. The idea of using a built
chassis with VW components and a Jeep body has been done
and is, in my never ever so humble opinion, a good idea.
I've even entertained the idea that I might do it myself.
Does anybody have contact information for Mr. Donegan?
Do you suppose he might sell plans?
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: Electric Jeep?
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> >
> > One of the woodburn races ('99?) had a scratch built jeep. I think it
> > used a home made frame with a vw transmission and a fiberglass body.
> > As I recall they were thinking about going into production.
>
> Yes, I think it was Patrick DonEgan's. I've seen it; a very nice
> scratch-built EV!
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Count me in. I've wanted some emblems (including the logos of the vendors
I've used) for a while now.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Bryan [mailto:jbryan@;ycsi.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 4:14 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Meaningful Flags was:OT-huffington article
Christopher Meier wrote:
> let us know what it would cost you to make more than
> one flag... I'd like one that said 40+ MPG for my Prius...
> -Chris
>
Michael B. wrote:
> Hey I'd like one each of those!!! one for the EV and one for the
> hybrid... Will you take orders?
I was hoping there would be some demand for these!
I'll be posting again when they are available, I'm planning on
creating mileage stickers for every reasonably high number.
Both these and the ELECTRIC emblems will probably be offered
in a couple of different sizes. It will tend to kind of take
the wind out of an 8 MPG SUV's sail, errr I mean flag.
...John
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--- End Message ---
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Casually perusing the EPA database showed 4WD took about 10 to 20%
more energy (mpg) than without for same model vehicles. Weight tends
to be around 5 to 10% more. The added drag is more than the extra
weight would imply, as there are extra gears, axles, extra ground
clearance, wider tires, sometimes fender flares, etc., to add to the
drag.
One notable exception was the Audi Quattro. Alledgedly the decreased
rolling resistance of driving all four wheels makes up for the extra
drag (most 4WD and AWD don't really do a 50/50 power split front to
rear like the center differential Quattro does). It gets the same
mpg/pound as the 2WD version. My understanding is the newer Quattros
may not use the same setup, so I'm not sure if this is still true for
new ones.
I'm not sure what happens if you take two motors and drive each axle
independently. You might get what happens with the Quattro, decreased
rolling resistance makes up for the extra drag of a 2nd differential
and axle.
--- Thomas Shay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I doubt that the range difference is as much as 10 percent.
> The extra parts needed for 4WD will add 5 to10% to the
> vehicles weight. This requires extra power when hill
> climbing and acceleration, but not when running at constant
> speed on the level. Most 4WD vehicles (not all)
> completely disconnect the unused axle when in 2WD.
>
> My main concern would be the extra weight. The less a
> vehicle weighs before it gets laden with batteries the better.
>
> Tom Shay
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Vince" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 8:57 AM
> Subject: Re: Electric Jeep?
>
>
> > Mine doesn"t leak but I removed the front wheel drive 4-wheel
> drive unit
> to
> > drop 175 pounds and i was told by Otmar that it would reduce my
> range by
> 10%
> > but there are sometimes when i wish i kept it in. It all depends
> on how
> > range challenged you are in getting to and from work. Does anyone
> have
> exact
> > range/efficiency numbers for 4-W vs 2-W drive? (when it's left in
> 2-wheel
> > drive of course.)
>
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hope to be there. but I don't think the sunglasses
would fit my fat head :-<
Anyway, there isn't a category for a 5000lb Blazer EV
of which I would be the only one and win the glasses 8-?
But I don't come to race (5000 lb EV, I don't think so).
But it is always a good time.
I was thinking of driving up again (180 miles) from
Silicon Valley by using the public charging.
My regular route depended on charging at Walnut Creek
BART, but PG&E is the EV charging host, and they turned
off the conductive recepticals. There is 1 ics-200 AVCON
and two LPIs (ICE usually block the spots).
I had measured the energy use by using the charging spots:
Alameda 5hrs > Concord 6hrs > Vacaville 6hrs > Sacramento
But that means a full charge off an AVCON in two spots.
And the recharge time is not as good as my regular route:
Fremont 2hrs > San Ramon 5hrs > Walnut Creek 2hrs >
Vacaville 6hrs > Sacramento
But, all this charging depends on if the ics-200's are
still working, or are adjusted to the correct AC current.
What will need support is the public charging infrastructure.
If hosts 'buy in' to the media hype that grid rechargeable
EVs are 'old and not worth the cost', or if the charger
repair abilites dry up, we EV drivers will need to address
these issues.
To get mre details, go to the http://nedra.com site, and
click EVents, then on Silent Thunder.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the EV ascci art above)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
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I'll bet you weighed the front of the car and then
drove across the scale and weighed the back end on the
other side right?
Most of those big scales are designed to have the
weighed centered on them and will give different
readings for the same weight on one side vs the other
side.
Try pulling forward on to the scale as far as possible
without getting your back wheels on it. Get your
weight and then back off, turn the car around and back
onto the scale until just before the front wheels get
on the scale.
This way you weigh both ends of the car on nearly the
same spot on the scale. By driving on until just
before the other set of wheels gets on you get your
vehicle more towards the center (most acurate part) of
the scale.
On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, "Lawrence Rhodes" wrote:
>
> Maybe it was the scale. Anybody know of a better
scale
> than the one at San
> Francisco Sunset Scavenger? With the front wheels and
> then the rear wheels
> on the scale seperately that weight didn't add up to
> the gross weight with
> the whole car on the scale. What information did I
> leave out? 1715 front
> 1475 rear curb weight aprox. I don't know where my
> weight mostly was. I
> assume up front. Even with all that weight in the
> back(800 pounds) the
> front is heavier. The Aspire isn't much bigger than a
> Metro but it is a few
> hundred pounds heavier. I think my car is as heavy or
> heavier than an EV +
> and much smaller. I guess some cars have 50% battery
> weight. Mine is only
> about 39%. Lawrence Rhodes..
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:16 AM
> Subject: Re: Aspire weight
>
>
> > That's not a lead sled, that's a lite weight by
> conversion standards.
> > IMHO Lead sleds weigh 4,000-5,000
> >
> > You didn't give us enough information to answere
your
> question about
> > front to rear weights, but while the angle of the
car
> does to a small
> > extent change the weight distribution, it has no
> effect on whether it
> > "adds up".
> >
> > Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >
> > >Talk about a lead sled. The green machine or as
the
> kids call it Freddy
> > >Ford is a bit of a pig. It weighs 3500 pounds with
> me in it. 1840 front
> > >1600 rear. That is from a dump scale. I think
it's
> right at least on
> the
> > >gross weight. I calculated 3300 curb weight. Take
> 250 my weight from
> 3500
> > >that and that is 3250. Not bad for an educated
> guess. There is a few
> > >pounds missing in the front to rear and it might be
> because the car is
> high
> > >in the back and low in the front. The surface
> seemed level at the
> scale.
> > >I am concerned about the lightness of the rear. It
> has 800 pounds behind
> > >and in front of the rear axle. If I raise the
front
> a bit might this
> change
> > >the front to rear weight ratio? A little confused
> because the front and
> > >rear weights don't add up right. Lawrence
Rhodes...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
________________________________________________
PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart.
http://www.peoplepc.com
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Hello to All,
I just love weird coincidences that are random and leave you scratching your
head...I'll
get to this at the end of this post....
As I've written, I've been doing a lot of 'updating' to my trusty electric Datsun 1200
lately, and I've talked about that wonderful PFC20 Rudman charger. It wasn't a simple
job
to make room for this machine in the already pretty full engine bay of this little car,
and as many know, I'm a bit of a detail freak, so many things had to be moved,
reorganized, and refabricated, including the motor controller (this in itself was a
major
redesign), main contactor and assorted control relays, cables, connections, etc....it
took
me two weeks of on and off effort to get it all done.
As part of the new design for using this charger in my car, I wanted to make it easily
seen and on display so as to promote and encourage the use of this versatile
charger...OK,
I admit that I also like its fun light show, and the Wayland-inspired blue LED is a
nice
touch! I also wanted the charger to be removable so that it could be used for other
duties
around my EV shop, used at the race track to jam amps into the race car's dump charger
battery bank, etc. The charger then, mounts in a custom aluminum tray and comes out
with
just one hidden screw, and is equipped with a 50 amp Anderson on its DC output, and an
'L6-30' male twist lock on its 120vac-240vac input. Taking the time not to scratch
things,
it takes about 30 seconds to pull the charger out of the car, and about the same to
put it
back in.
Using the 'L6-30' a 30 amp 250V rated twist lock, is perfect for my charger, as mine
is a
bit tweaked by Da Madman, and so it pulls currents well over 20 amps, even at 240vac.
I've
been having fun making various charger cords for my setup, as I pride myself in making
cords that are both heavy duty and nice looking at the same time...allow me to explain.
The way the cord looks and feels to me, is every bit as important as its
functionality, so
I have to use just the right kind of connectors, the right kind of cable, the right
kind
of heat shrink, the right kind of screws and hardware, etc. There are many quality
brands
of connectors...Hubbell, Leviton, Eagle, Bryant...these are all pretty much high
quality
parts, but I wanted to avoid the homemade tacky look, and so I carefully chose the
brand
type in the NEMA 14-50 connector. Many have used the Leviton 'universal' 240vac plug
for
their NEMA 14-50 connector, but this large, square-shaped thing is bulky and with its
rough cast plastic, well, it's homemade looking. Don't get me wrong, most of Leviton's
connectors are quite the opposite, and have a terrific look and feel, but this
particular
one is awful. Eagle, on the other hand, has a nice line of made in Mexico connectors,
and
the one for the NEMA 14-50 connector is round-shaped, very compact, and has a nice
gloss
finish to it. The only thing I dislike about it, is the tacky screws used for the cable
clamp, that when tightened down, protrude on the other side so as to catch fingers and
conveniently wound the user. For my main charger cord, I found some very clean, thick
10-3
cable that is a direct match to what Rudman uses on his chargers. Of course, the one
end
has a female 'L6-30' a 30 amp 250V rated twist lock made by Eagle, and the male end
has
the aforementioned Eagle NEMA 14-50 connector. I left off the neutral male prong as it
has
no function with the PFC20 charger, and with just the three male prongs, this connector
pushes in and out of a standard NEMA 14-50 receptacle with a bit less pressure and that
has a nice feel to it. I was pretty anal about the Eagle NEMA 14-50 connector, and
replaced the funky screws by re-tapping the threaded holes of the cable clamp to accept
slightly larger quality stainless steel allen head bolts...the exposed threads on the
other side are just long enough to accept stainless steel washers and nuts...it looks
and
feels very nice. The thick round rubber 10-3 cable has two coverings of heat shrink,
with
the largest being thick heat-glued type. The 15 ft. charge cord has a high quality look
and feel.
I also used 10-3 cable from the gas filler section of the car, under the car and
forward
to the under-hood area, and again, used a female 'L6-30' a 30 amp 250V rated twist
lock
made by Eagle to make connection with the male plug of the PFC20. The car was put up
on a
rack to make the cable run easy for a clean and tidy installation.
For 22 years now, my EV, as with many others' EVs, uses the convenient gas filler area
of
the car as the power input area for the charge cord...nothing unique here, with the
only
fairly trick item being that the Datsun 1200 has a nice, body panel type of locking gas
door that has to be opened for access to what is normally the gas filler cap inside.
The
earliest version of this car, back in 1980 when it was a bare bones 48V machine, had a
retractable power cord from a vacuum cleaner, and upon opening the gas filler door, one
was greeted by a male 120vac plug you could grasp and pull out from the ratcheting cord
reel....nifty, and quite the conversation piece when showing regular gasoholic types! I
have a 1984 video done by a television news reporter, that has the camera up close and
focused in as I allow the cord reel to suck the power cord back. After having the cord
reel with a partially wound-up power cord of far too light gauge wire literally melt
and
caught on fire, the 'nifty' cord reel idea was abandoned, and a recessed flange mount
style, male 120vac power input receptacle was installed and wired with more
appropriate 12
gauge power cord to the onboard charger. Thus, for years, my Datsun 1200 has had this
type
of power input receptacle behind the gas filler door. Since the factory hole for the
gas
filler pipe was way too big, I fabricated a trim plate from Masonite and Formica to
cover
that hole and the three surrounding perimeter flange mounting holes, then made a hole
in
the center where I mounted the 120vac power input receptacle.
OK, on to the subject of this post.....As the final touch on my upgrade, I had ordered
and
received a nice Leviton brand nylon 'L6-30' twist lock recessed flange mount style,
male
30 amp 250V rated power input receptacle that was to replace the old 120vac power input
receptacle. I unscrewed the three mounting screws that held the Wayland made trim plate
and its attached power input receptacle, and removed it from the car so as to enlarge
the
plate's hole to accommodate the new 240V Leviton power input receptacle. In fact, I had
actually disassembled the old trim plate/power input affair and had used a hole saw and
cut the larger hole....that's when it hit me, that the three perimeter screw holes were
looking familiar. OK folks, what are the odds of this?...the main hole and the three
perimeter screw holes my 30 year old Japanese car (that's 'metric everything') had for
its
gas filler pipe, were an exact fit to the diameter of the central body portion of the
American made, flange mount style Leviton twist lock and its three perimeter screw
holes...they lined right up....exactly! I simply drilled-out the three gas filler
perimeter holes a bit larger to accommodate threaded inserts (installed with a
'Nutcert'
tool), enlarged the three perimeter screw holes of the Leviton slightly so that 8 gauge
stainless steel allen head screws could be used, wired up the twist lock, dropped it
in,
and tightened the three screws! I don't know about the rest of you, but I love this
kind
of weird stuff!
See Ya.......John Wayland
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Hello fellow EVer's,
James Massey wrote:
I was able to buy just the elements from a company whose name escapes me in
Canada. Follows is bits from Emails prior to purchace:
CH2700C Ceramic Heater elements
Rated voltage - 120 volt
Rated wattage - 1500 watts at 25 degrees C
1800 watts at 0 degrees C
The buy the element only would cost $20.00 each.
Our fax # is 905-415-9098. Country code is 1 (I'm not sure what you have to
dial before that).
Regards,
I remember tracking some 120v elements for James while I was in Canada -
- I found them in the 39 dollar Cdn ceramic heaters Canadian Tire have
in their catalogues. They work well in my 120v Mini pickup. I think
James phoned Canadian Tire's head office, and asked who made them.
Turned out the supplier was in the far East ( no surprises there ).
Anyway, it's easy to get hold of them - just ask a friendly Canadian!
( I'm sure other places have them too, JC Whitney, etc. )
I even managed to find some 240v elements here in the UK, which are
put away waiting for my high-voltage Mini Cooper project....
regards,
Richard Bebbington
Electric Mini pickup
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How about bumper stickers: "YOU support Osama, one gallon at the time"
and "YOU financed 9/11, one gallon at the time"? They should be
visible to any (gas) trailing vehicle in traffic.
Victor
John Bryan wrote:
>
> Christopher Meier wrote:
>
> > let us know what it would cost you to make more than
> > one flag... I'd like one that said 40+ MPG for my Prius...
> > -Chris
> >
>
> Michael B. wrote:
>
> > Hey I'd like one each of those!!! one for the EV and one for the
> > hybrid... Will you take orders?
>
> I was hoping there would be some demand for these!
> I'll be posting again when they are available, I'm planning on
> creating mileage stickers for every reasonably high number.
> Both these and the ELECTRIC emblems will probably be offered
> in a couple of different sizes. It will tend to kind of take
> the wind out of an 8 MPG SUV's sail, errr I mean flag.
>
> ...John
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--- Begin Message ---
The biggest problem with this whole idea (aside from it being WAY off
topic) is that Osam's fortune doesn't come from oil, it comes from
construction and agriculture.
Besides, even if everyone traded in their SUV for a Geo Metro, we would
still need foriegn oil. It best to stick to the truth, SUVs, etc. waste
a precious resource that can NOT be replinished.
Either way it's pretty fruitless, americans (for the most part) don't
care about the rest of the world or even about their own unborn
grandkids. Heck some don't even care that much about their own kids.
If you want to start a sucessful campain, start pushing to have them
teach conservation in grade school. It won't effect today's attitudes,
but it will make a huge difference 20 years from now.
How about bumper stickers: "YOU support Osama, one gallon at the time"
and "YOU financed 9/11, one gallon at the time"? They should be
visible to any (gas) trailing vehicle in traffic.
Victor
John Bryan wrote:
Christopher Meier wrote:
let us know what it would cost you to make more than
one flag... I'd like one that said 40+ MPG for my Prius...
-Chris
Michael B. wrote:
Hey I'd like one each of those!!! one for the EV and one for the
hybrid... Will you take orders?
I was hoping there would be some demand for these!
I'll be posting again when they are available, I'm planning on
creating mileage stickers for every reasonably high number.
Both these and the ELECTRIC emblems will probably be offered
in a couple of different sizes. It will tend to kind of take
the wind out of an 8 MPG SUV's sail, errr I mean flag.
...John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Seth Murray wrote:
>
> > The first Zs were very light. Good luck. Lawrence Rhodes...
>
> 2300 lbs stock. The engine is a significant portion of this so
> hopefully front suspension won't be too much of a problem :-)
Just a mild correction...the earliest 240Z, that would be 1970, weighed a bit more at
2350
lbs. After that, they got progressively heavier. A quick way to tell if you have a real
'70 Z, is that the rear window defogger lines run vertically, where all other years of
the
Z had horizontal defroster lines. Another telltale of the model year thing, is that the
'70 Z has '240Z' across the small rear air extraction vents on the C pillars, but all
other Z's just have 'Z' in that same spot.
You are right though, that this car in particular, has a heavy in line 6 cylinder, so
once
it and the tranny are removed, you end up with a very light and cool donor car. Out of
interest, the Z's 2.4L six is a Datsun 510 four banger with two more cylinders
added....that's why Z flat top pistons drop right into a 510 L16 motor, the water pump
interchanges, the tranny's interchange, etc. Another interesting tid bit....only the
first
year Z, the '70 model, had a three piece tranny with a removable bell housing, a main
body, and a tail section...all other Z's had a two piece tranny with the bell housing
cast
into the main body as one unit. The only reason I know this, is that those of us that
were
Datsun 510 fanatics (I actually owned more than 70 of them!) found a super trick way to
put a racing quality 5 speed tranny in the 510 (that only came to the US market with a
4
speed tranny) by robbing the '70 Z of its removable bell housing. The 240Z too, only
came
to this market with 4 speeds or auto trannys, no 5 speeds until the 280Z version.
Anyway,
the famous Datsun 2000 Roadster that preceded the Z, had a beefy racing quality 5 speed
tranny with internal Porsche synchronizers...the problem, was that this tranny didn't
even
remotely bolt into a Z and even if it could, it was too short to fit the Z's body, and
though it was the right length for a 510, it wouldn't bolt into it, either.... the
starter
motor port was on the wrong side, and the bell's shape and engine bolt pattern were
totally different, too. However, if one took a roadster 5 speed, which had a three
piece
design, and removed its bell housing, then took a '70 Z's removable bell, it would, for
some unknown reason, bolt right onto the center section of that roadster 5 speed
tranny!
The roadster tranny with a Z bell housing would then drop right into the Datsun
510...even
the shift lever came out the factory floor hole, and through 'Nissan Competition'
departments, you could order up a special tranny crossmember and drive shaft adapter to
make it all simply bolt into a 510! Anyway, this is just a bunch of Datsun
trivia.....Later 280Z 5 speeds, though bigger, longer, and heavier than a 510's
compact 4
speed, will also bolt right up to a Datsun 510 motor, but the shift lever comes out
much
farther back, so a new floor hole needs to be cut, a custom tranny crossmember needs
to be
made, and the driveline needs to be shortened....oh, oh, I'm rambling in Datsunese!
A good thing to do for dropping weight out of your Z in the conversion from gas to
electric, is to sell the Z tranny and get a smaller and much lighter 510
four speed speed tranny to put back in it. The cool thing, is that you will actually
make
money on the deal, as stock 510 trannys are a dime a dozen, while Z four speeds that
are
in good condition, bring a pretty high price to Z collectors. The same goes for the
rear
end, as the Z's R180 model is bigger and quite a bit heavier than the 510's R160 rear
end,
which yes, will bolt right in. Another interesting tid bit, is that today's modern
Subaru
Legacy and Outback models, use a Z-510 rear end, but these are equipped with better
constant velocity universals instead of garden variety standard universals! Of course,
if
you are serious about making a muscular EV out of your Z, you just might want to keep
both
of these more heavy duty drivetrain pieces :-)
See Ya........John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If Patrick is interested, maybe someone (in the US) can set up
a shop jig building frames. Someone like EVParts and/or Mike/Shari
could sell the electric drivetrain components, and of course you have
your choice of bodies. All that's left is the running gear, that someone
else could offer as a set of kit parts. Once everyone involved has
a frame, each individual effort could proceed separately, and
customers order and have shipped to them a complete kit via
the X suppliers. What other details are necessary to make it
qualify for the tax advantage?
As I recall, Patrick was trying to interest the large auto manufacturers
in producing his vehicle for the Islands (Hawaiian). Who says you
need them? Patrick may be excited to hear that there is interest
in a group sourced vehicle.
http://www.lava.net/~patricki/patricki_1.html
-Chris
ps. I too saw Patrick's Jeep. He was staying about 1/2mile
from my house, I found out a day or two before he left. Car
itself seemed well designed, but it had a Russco charger that
helped murder the Optimas... fortunately there are other
choices now.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: Electric Jeep?
> Yes it was Patrick Donegan. The idea of using a built
> chassis with VW components and a Jeep body has been done
> and is, in my never ever so humble opinion, a good idea.
> I've even entertained the idea that I might do it myself.
>
> Does anybody have contact information for Mr. Donegan?
> Do you suppose he might sell plans?
>
> Tom Shay
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 10:10 AM
> Subject: Re: Electric Jeep?
>
>
> > Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> > >
> > > One of the woodburn races ('99?) had a scratch built jeep. I think it
> > > used a home made frame with a vw transmission and a fiberglass body.
> > > As I recall they were thinking about going into production.
> >
> > Yes, I think it was Patrick DonEgan's. I've seen it; a very nice
> > scratch-built EV!
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> > 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> > Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> > leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had a sudden insight (if you'll pardon the pun) on the resistance we
commonly get from the general public about an EV's range. A lot of the
time, they don't really mean, "How many miles can I drive before I have to
recharge?" They mean "How many DAYS can I drive before I have to recharge?"
I discovered this after explaining for the zillionth time (ok, I wasn't
real quick on this) that even if a car has a 60 mile range, that doesn't
mean you can drive it 15 miles a day and only charge it every four
days. If left partially discharged like this, it will get sluggish on
about day three, if not at the end of day two. But a couple days in a row
of driving and charging the same day will pep it right back up to full range.
This is when it hit me what the real misunderstanding was about.
Gas car drivers think in terms of days of commuting before they have to
deal with the irritating little chore of refueling, which means pulling out
of traffic (maybe taking a different route to get to the preferred
station), parking, paying, standing around wrestling the smelly pump,
etc. They will TELL you it's convenient refueling, but subconsciously,
they want to do it as seldom as possible and get it over with as quickly as
possibly. When you tell them an EV should be recharged every night, and
takes all night, they are put off.
People need a whole new way to think about fueling. It is not an extra
chore you are forced to do, while you wait, every time the "tank" gets
empty. Instead, it is an automatic gesture every time you park the car at
home, no more trouble than rolling up the windows and turning off the
lights, something you can do in a couple of seconds and forget about. Just
plug it in. It refills automatically while you sleep. Every morning, your
"tank" is full, and you don't even have to think about it.
I'm going to be more aware of this concept when talking to people now, and
I think it will help in many cases.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wednesday, October 23, 2002, at 08:20 PM, John Wayland wrote:
A good thing to do for dropping weight out of your Z in the conversion
from gas to
electric, is to sell the Z tranny and get a smaller and much lighter
510
four speed speed tranny to put back in it. The cool thing, is that you
will actually make
money on the deal, as stock 510 trannys are a dime a dozen, while Z
four speeds that are
in good condition, bring a pretty high price to Z collectors. The same
goes for the rear
end, as the Z's R180 model is bigger and quite a bit heavier than the
510's R160 rear end,
which yes, will bolt right in. Another interesting tid bit, is that
today's modern Subaru
Legacy and Outback models, use a Z-510 rear end, but these are
equipped with better
constant velocity universals instead of garden variety standard
universals! Of course, if
you are serious about making a muscular EV out of your Z, you just
might want to keep both
of these more heavy duty drivetrain pieces :-)
First, thanks for Datsun info. This stuff is really interesting, had
some good reads on the web too. Now, I most certainly intend to make
the Z somewhat of a fast EV - I am buying a new/used T-Rex 1000 and
plan on using a 16-optima pack and a WarP 9" motor. Should be pretty
slick (maybe I can even beat the Blue Meany?? <huge grin>). Now, if I
try to swap out parts to keep my Z light, can the replacement parts you
mentioned handle that kind of power? (speaking of which, what kind of
torque can I expect from a setup like this?). Another question for any
Datsun folks out there (read "Plasma Boy") do you think my stock clutch
can handle the electric torque (remember the whole driveline has only
77k miles on it) or should I start looking around for a racing clutch?
For those interested, here is a brief blurb about the car: for
starters, it is in fabulous shape, especially the interior. it was
bought in 1972 new by a guy in the navy who drove it for 5 years (had
it undercoated after 3 years) and then stopped driving it and put it
in his garage when he had kids. he only put 77k miles on it. his kids
are now out of college but he never had time to get it back up and
running (and in my opinion probably didn't have the ability) and he
moved a few days ago and needed to sell it quick. It hadn't seen the
light of day (or the wetness of maine!) until I towed it home and put
it in MY garage. I probably will try to get it running as a gas car
over december break and then hopefully convert it next summer. I've
got stacks of parts catalogs and both new and original shop manuals.
can't wait to get to work, now all I need it time off from school!
Seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
My electric truck page, with lots of photos and a 25 page conversion
journal. Check it out!
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/ (no more popups!)
My EV Album page
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth
I have renewed seveal MG Midgets engines,
my thing, in the past.
I fill then with light oil like Kero.
I mean fill Crankcase, 1/2 cup in each piston,
and as much will stand in the valve cover.
Then every day try to turn the crank with a
wrench.
usually I have it turning a part of a degree by the second week.
and turn the engine by wrench by the end of the month.
Of course I put a oil drip pan under the car and refill
what leaks out each week as I go. Of course I drain and
change the oil twice before the car is run on the road.
So far I have gotten 4 engines this way to run without
teardown rebuild.
Pete
Athens NY
10/23/02 8:53:42 PM, Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Wednesday, October 23, 2002, at 08:20 PM, John Wayland wrote:
>
>> A good thing to do for dropping weight out of your Z in the conversion
>> from gas to
>> electric, is to sell the Z tranny and get a smaller and much lighter
>> 510
>> four speed speed tranny to put back in it. The cool thing, is that you
>> will actually make
>> money on the deal, as stock 510 trannys are a dime a dozen, while Z
>> four speeds that are
>> in good condition, bring a pretty high price to Z collectors. The same
>> goes for the rear
>> end, as the Z's R180 model is bigger and quite a bit heavier than the
>> 510's R160 rear end,
>> which yes, will bolt right in. Another interesting tid bit, is that
>> today's modern Subaru
>> Legacy and Outback models, use a Z-510 rear end, but these are
>> equipped with better
>> constant velocity universals instead of garden variety standard
>> universals! Of course, if
>> you are serious about making a muscular EV out of your Z, you just
>> might want to keep both
>> of these more heavy duty drivetrain pieces :-)
>
>First, thanks for Datsun info. This stuff is really interesting, had
>some good reads on the web too. Now, I most certainly intend to make
>the Z somewhat of a fast EV - I am buying a new/used T-Rex 1000 and
>plan on using a 16-optima pack and a WarP 9" motor. Should be pretty
>slick (maybe I can even beat the Blue Meany?? <huge grin>). Now, if I
>try to swap out parts to keep my Z light, can the replacement parts you
>mentioned handle that kind of power? (speaking of which, what kind of
>torque can I expect from a setup like this?). Another question for any
>Datsun folks out there (read "Plasma Boy") do you think my stock clutch
>can handle the electric torque (remember the whole driveline has only
>77k miles on it) or should I start looking around for a racing clutch?
>
>For those interested, here is a brief blurb about the car: for
>starters, it is in fabulous shape, especially the interior. it was
>bought in 1972 new by a guy in the navy who drove it for 5 years (had
>it undercoated after 3 years) and then stopped driving it and put it
>in his garage when he had kids. he only put 77k miles on it. his kids
>are now out of college but he never had time to get it back up and
>running (and in my opinion probably didn't have the ability) and he
>moved a few days ago and needed to sell it quick. It hadn't seen the
>light of day (or the wetness of maine!) until I towed it home and put
>it in MY garage. I probably will try to get it running as a gas car
>over december break and then hopefully convert it next summer. I've
>got stacks of parts catalogs and both new and original shop manuals.
>can't wait to get to work, now all I need it time off from school!
>
> Seth
>
>
>--
>QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
>
>My electric truck page, with lots of photos and a 25 page conversion
>journal. Check it out!
>http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/ (no more popups!)
>
>My EV Album page
>http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
