EV Digest 2388
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: How much is enough? (long) (was: RE: Epiphany on Range Issue)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Currie Scooter
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EVLN(% ZEV law is part of the evil empire %)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Epiphany on Range Issue
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: What kind of Hair Dryer for DC Defrost/Heat..
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) bad battery questions
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Electric Avenues
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Electric Avenues
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Massachusetts Alt Energy Convoy =?iso-8859-1?Q?=96?= Oct. 26-27, 2002
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_Massachusetts_Alt_Energy_Convoy_=96_Oct._26-2?=
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?7,_2002?=
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Is it worth replacing bad batteries?
by "Mark Hastings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_Massachusetts_Alt_Energy_Convoy_=96_Oct._26-2?=
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?7,_2002?=
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: bad battery questions
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Is it worth replacing bad batteries?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Rudman reg madness
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Load tester for 6,8 &12 volt use.
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) OT: NiMH AA batteries
by "Shelton, John D. AW2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: bad battery questions
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) I heart OPEC
by "Shelton, John D. AW2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) It's a Rubber-burnin', Fuse-poppin', Clean-Meanin' Machine!
(long) (part I)
by Geoff Shepherd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I agree, and have even simpler definition for "enough":
Enough if when you don't think this is an EV and use it as you'd use
an ICE (for daily job of course, not vacations).
So "enough" is different for everyone.
Victor
Ralph Merwin wrote:
>
> Chris Tromley writes:
> >
> > Unfortunately, a 25-35 mile range does not qualify as a normal car for
> > most people.
>
> This is the key point of this thread, although I would restate it to say
> that "EVs do not qualify as a normal car for most people". As such, most
> people will not buy an EV regardless of how closely it meets their needs.
> People are resistant to change. Buying an EV is a big change to a basic
> part of their life.
>
> I'm not going to waste my time trying to convert someone to the cause.
> My approach is to drive my EV whenever possible, answer questions when
> asked, and otherwise go about my business. People know I drive an EV,
> and if/when someone gets serious about having one, I will try to help.
>
> Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roy LeMeur wrote:
> Some might find this new scooter of interest:
> http://www.electricscootermag.com/WeeklyVision> /09252002.htm
>
>
> This is the new Currie F-18 fully suspended
> scooter with front and rear
> brakes. I am currently upgrading this one for Electric
> Scooter Magazine.
>
> Currie Technologies and the motor manufacturer both claim this motor
> w/integral controller should have no problem operating on 36V
> instead of
> 24V.
>
> I am making a new battery box to hold 3 Hawker 12V 14AH
> batteries, we hope
> to get close to 30 mph and 15+ mile range with this setup.
Hi Roy,
I've been lurking on the Zappy list for a while now. (I'd rather not
sign up for a Yahoo account.) I'm amazed at the speeds some are getting
from modified e-scoots (up to 70 mph!). I'm equally amazed that there
is no discussion whatsoever of the ramifications of those speeds.
In my opinion, 30 mph speeds get you into motorcycle helmet territory.
(Did you know the impact speed for Snell testing of a motorcycle helmet
is around 25 mph?). Anyone who dismounts at that speed the hard way
will quickly discover the value of gloves and other protective clothing
as well.
30 mph is double the design speed. That means four times the energy is
involved in braking (or crashing). Are brake upgrades planned? I've
seen no discussions of braking techniues to mitigate the probelms of
short wheelbase and high c/g. Easy to deal with, but still no
discussion.
Suspension is fairly new to the scooter world, and the component quality
is still a bit low. What does the higher speed do to handling? Most
scooter-dudes would answer that question with, "Huh?", which also amazes
me. If I had an e-scooter and some scooter friends, you can bet we'd
have a parking lot road racing course set up in no time. ;^)
Happy scootin'
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OT - If the law gets rewritten so relatively easy every time there
are "difficulties" to implement previous version, what's the point
to pass it in a first place?
CA can pass any ZEV laws then it wants. They're going to be
changed anyway (because of "difficulties"), so auto
industry/govt can do nothing, and then justify difficulties.
Very convenient arrangement.
Victor
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
>
> EVLN(% ZEV law is part of the evil empire %)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/nation/4248996.htm
> Thursday, Oct 24, 2002 Nation Posted on Wed, Oct. 09, 2002
> Bush administration challenges California zero emissions
> law BY MIKE TAUGHER Knight Ridder Newspapers
>
> WALNUT CREEK, Calif. - (KRT) - The federal government
> weighed in Wednesday on behalf of the automobile industry in
> a lawsuit that seeks to overturn California's pioneering,
> yet faltering, drive to get more electric cars on the road.
>
> In court papers filed in San Francisco, Bush administration
> lawyers argued that California's electric vehicle rules are
> encroaching on the federal government's exclusive authority
> to regulate how many miles per gallon new cars get.
>
> It was a rare and possibly unprecedented federal challenge
> to vehicle pollution regulations in California, a national
> leader in setting strict limits.
>
> A spokesman for the California Environmental Protection
> Agency said he was unaware of any similar challenge, and
> that although it is possible the federal government might
> have objected in the past to small parts of California's
> smog-fighting efforts, "there have been no major
> interferences."
>
> "California has always been in a unique position," said
> Cal-EPA spokesman William L. Rukeyeser. "Among the 50
> states, we're the only one where federal law gives us the
> ability to set our own standards, which are more protective
> of public health (than federal rules.)"
>
> Under the state's zero-emission vehicle program adopted in
> 1990, 10 percent of new cars sold in California were to be
> electric cars beginning with the 2003 model year. That is
> nowhere near happening, and state regulators have rewritten
> the ZEV rules several times in recognition of the difficulty
> of building and selling battery-powered cars.
>
> State air quality regulators have in recent years revised
> rules to allow car companies to take credit for cars that
> run extremely cleanly to help them meet the electric car
> sales requirement.
>
> The revisions include the use of federal mileage standards,
> a tack that led General Motors, DaimlerChrysler and several
> car dealerships to sue early this year.
>
> In June, U.S. District Judge Robert E. Coyle in Fresno
> issued a preliminary injunction suspending the ZEV program
> pending a full trial. State regulators appealed, and on
> Wednesday federal lawyers filed a 29-page brief backing the
> industry's position.
>
> The question of whether a state clean-air program has tread
> on the federal government's authority over mileage standards
> is doubly important because that is also the main legal
> objection to a new state law to limit greenhouse gas
> emissions from cars within the next several years.
>
> "You can rest assured that a lawsuit will be filed," said
> Eron Shosteck, a spokesman for the Alliance of Automobile
> Manufacturers, which represents 12 companies that together
> make 90 percent of the cars sold in the U.S.
>
> The only way to reduce carbon dioxide from tailpipes is to
> burn less gas, which means either reducing the number of
> miles that Californians drive or increasing fuel efficiency,
> Shosteck said. He said it could be years before the legal
> challenge to the greenhouse gas law is mounted.
>
> "There is no technology, no device you can bolt onto a
> vehicle to make it produce less carbon dioxide," Shosteck
> said.
>
> Rukeyeser of the state EPA said the ZEV program and the
> greenhouse gas law are meant to clean up pollution, not
> require mileage improvements.
>
> "The state's regulations are about pollution," he said.
> "It's never been our intention, and it still isn't, to
> require more fuel efficiency."
>
> Supporters of the ZEV program say that although battery-
> powered cars have not taken off as they had hoped, the
> requirement has spurred the popularity of hybrid cars and
> provided a major boost to another type of electric car, the
> fuel cell vehicle.
>
> Earlier next year, state air-quality regulators plan to
> re-examine the entire ZEV program in light of the legal
> difficulties, problems with battery powered cars and the
> unexpectedly rapid development non- polluting fuel cells.
>
> "Fuel cell and hybrid technology is a decade ahead of where
> it would have been in the absence of zero-emission vehicle
> regulations," California Gov. Gray Davis said in a
> statement. "I am disappointed that the federal government
> would intervene with our efforts to protect our air
> quality."
> --- ©2002, Contra Costa Times (Walnut Creek, Calif.).
> http://www.bayarea.com. Distributed by Knight
> Ridder/Tribune Information Services.
> -
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the EV ascci art above)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
> Yahoo! - We Remember
> 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
> http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The people who "get" the argument
that all it has to do is meet your needs, are the people who could
be convinced
that an electric car could work for them. If they don't get this, then
IMHO, it won't matter what the range is--they won't see the use of an EV.
Very well put Mark.
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee wrote:
The specific ones I have were removed from "Pelonis" brand ceramic
heaters. Pelonis was among the first (if not THE first) manufacturer to
make ceramic heaters. These are the "original design" ceramic elements;
about 4" square and 1/2" thick, and look like a miniature car radiator,
but with 5 electrical connections along one side.
These sound like the 2 I have in my Pickup. A quick test for a
ceramic heater is to hook it up on the workbench with a paper towel
on top (out of the heater, no airflow). Watch the amps, they should
quickly drop under 2. The paper should not scorch. Now, I recommend
you quit abusing the heater that way as you may end up having to buy
a 3rd one (experience). For this same reason I recommend you wire
them in so the heater fan has to be on before they can be turned on.
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I have found out why the voltage in my Pickup tends to be soft.
I did the deepest cycle yet in my Pickup, about 1/2 of capacity. I
could keep the pack over 100 volts (120v system), but I really had to
be careful. Resting voltage was still OK, at just over 120v.
I checked each battery voltage when I got home. 6.09, 6.12, 6.11,
4.56!! I continued to finish the check, all where pretty tight except
that one. Well, I figured that a quick check of the SG would find a
dead cell or at least low numbers. No, that battery and the others
around it all read around the 1.22 range. One cell had a few tiny
bubbles rising in it (with no load at this point), I figure it is the
bad one, but the SG seems fine for the state of charge. So I tried
turning on the heater on high. The voltage on that battery dropped to
about 1.2 volts (and rising, but the negative terminal was still the
negative). Clearly that stopped the load testing (the same load was
putting other batteries right at/few hundredths above 6v).
OK, any ideas as to what happened to this battery? Clearly I need to
replace it. The pack has about 20 cycles on it, most very shallow.
Hopefully a new one won't get to burned breaking in.
Oh, charging the pack now. After a few minutes at the beginning with
it still reading under 6v its voltage is matching the rest of the
pack now (10 amp charge, Lester on 120vac). I do know this battery
likes to read the highest late in charge (when the pack gets to about
150v). However, most of the time its voltage fits right in with the
rest of the pack, perhaps a couple 100ths of a volt lower.
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
4.
ELECTRIC AVENUES?
What do Detroit billionaires do with their cash after they retire
from the upper echelons of the auto industry? The answer, in the
cases of Lee Iacocca and Robert Stempel, may surprise you: They
start electric-car companies. Stempel, the former head of General
Motors, helped create the emissions-reducing catalytic converter in
1966 and has always had a bit of an environmental bent. Now, as
chair of Energy Conversion Devices, he is developing a prototype
electric car -- one that will be a "real vehicle," he noted, as
opposed to electric cars designed to go at slow speeds for short
distances. The latter is more the territory of former Chrysler CEO
Iacocca -- who, unlike Stempel, has been drawn into the
electric-vehicle market by the profit motive, not by an environmental
ethic. As founder and president of Lido Motors USA, Iacocca is
selling a neighborhood electric vehicle that can go 25 mph and travel
for up to 40 miles on a six-hour charge. He hopes the car will catch
on among early retirees and residents of gated communities.
straight to the source: New York Times, Braden Phillips, 23 Oct 2002
<http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=615>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have alot of respect for what Stempel has done for the EV,
in fact that may partially have something to do with him
being pushed out as CEO. He still travels in stile, at least
the last time I seen him at the EV races in Arizona at the APS Electric
500 in 1995. He had a 36 foot motorhome towing an SUV and satellite
dishes on top. Not bashing Rob, just pointing out if you have the
money you will use it :-).
Maybe he's converting that motorhome to hybrid :-)
Rod
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
4.
ELECTRIC AVENUES?
What do Detroit billionaires do with their cash after they retire
from the upper echelons of the auto industry? The answer, in the
cases of Lee Iacocca and Robert Stempel, may surprise you: They
start electric-car companies. Stempel, the former head of General
Motors, helped create the emissions-reducing catalytic converter in
1966 and has always had a bit of an environmental bent. Now, as
chair of Energy Conversion Devices, he is developing a prototype
electric car -- one that will be a "real vehicle," he noted, as
opposed to electric cars designed to go at slow speeds for short
distances. The latter is more the territory of former Chrysler CEO
Iacocca -- who, unlike Stempel, has been drawn into the
electric-vehicle market by the profit motive, not by an environmental
ethic. As founder and president of Lido Motors USA, Iacocca is
selling a neighborhood electric vehicle that can go 25 mph and travel
for up to 40 miles on a six-hour charge. He hopes the car will catch
on among early retirees and residents of gated communities.
straight to the source: New York Times, Braden Phillips, 23 Oct 2002
<http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=615>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So far, 4 hybrids, 2 biodielsels, and ONE electric is confirmed (I'm not
confirmed as I have a scheduling conflict). More are expected to join...
note that this is put together by the "Green Party" (no affiliation).
------ forwarded message ------
Here's the itinerary (all times approximate):
Statewide Alternative Energy Convoy – Oct. 26-27, 2002
DAY ONE (Saturday)
Start: 9:30 a.m.
Starting location: Fenway Star Market parking lot, Boylston St. and
Kilmarnock in Boston
Rally for 30 minutes, leave at 10:00 a.m.
1st Route:
-- Boylston St. to Storrow Dr. East,
-- to Rte. 93 North
-- to Tobin Bridge (Rte. 1)
-- Chelsea Exit, to Park St.
-- to Eastern Ave.
1st stop (~10:30 a.m.): Burke Oil (284 Eastern Ave. only biodiesel
retailer in Eastern Mass.)
Candidates talk about the importance of sustainable, non-fossil fuels
2nd Route:
-- Eastern Ave. to Park St. to Second Ave., runs into Rte. 16,
through Everett to Medford
-- South on Rte. 28 (McGrath/O’Brien Highway), right on Somerville
Ave., left on Prospect
-- Right on Cambridge Ave., to Inman Square, Somerville
2nd stop (12:00 noon): Inman Square (1369 Cambridge St. with Lachelier
for State Rep. Campaign)
Candidates talk about the importance of challenging status quo on Beacon
Hill
3rd Route:
-- Cambridge St. to Mass. Ave.,
-- through Cambridge, into Arlington, past Arlington Hts., into
Lexington
3rd stop (~1:00 p.m.): Lexington Battle Green
Candidates talk about the need to declare independence from foreign oil
4th Route:
-- Mass. Ave. to Rte. 2A West, through Concord, Acton, Littleton,
Ayer, Shirley, Lunenburg, Fitchburg.
-- Left on Rte. 12 to Leominster.
4th stop (~2:30 p.m.): Leominster High School Center for Technical Ed.
Candidates meet students in alternative energy program
Last Route:
-- Rte. 12 back to Rte. 2A West, through Westminster, Gardner,
Templeton,
-- pick up Rte. 2 West to Greenfield.
Last stop (~6:00 p.m.): The People’s Pint
DAY TWO (Sunday)
Start: 9:00 a.m.
Starting location: Greenfield Center, on the Common (Federal and Main
Streets)
1st Route:
-- Rte. 2A to Rte. 5 South, through Deerfield, Whately, Hatfield,
to Northampton
1st stop (~10:30 a.m.): First Church (corner of King and Main)
Candidates rally with Michael Aleo’s campaign, talk about IRV initiative
2nd Route:
-- Rte. 5 South, through Easthampton, Holyoke to S. Hadley Falls
2nd stop (12:00 noon): South Hadley Falls (corner of Rte. 116 and Main
St.)
Candidates talk about the importance of Smart Growth, sustainable
development
3rd Route:
-- Rte. 5 South to Holyoke
3rd stop (~1:30 p.m.): Holyoke/Springfield
TBD
4th Route:
-- Rte. 5
-- to Rte. 91
-- to Rte. 291
-- to Mass. Tpk. East (Springfield)
-- to Rte. 290 to Worcester
4th stop (~3:00 p.m.): Worcester, Centro Presente
Candidates discuss issues
5th Route:
-- Rte. 9 East
-- to Rte. 20 East,
-- through Shrewsbury, Marlboro, Sudbury, Wayland
5th stop (~5:00 p.m.): Waltham City Hall (610 Main St.)
Meet candidate for U.S. Congress, Dan Melnechuk of Waltham, 7th District
Last stop (~6:00 p.m.): The Ultimate Political Hangout: Doyle’s in JP,
on Washington St.
------ end forwarded message -----
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S-10
1970s Elec-Trak E20
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jim -
Are you planning on attending any of these events? if the one in
worcester is close by I'll probably stop in
Seth
On Friday, October 25, 2002, at 11:16 PM, Jim Coate wrote:
So far, 4 hybrids, 2 biodielsels, and ONE electric is confirmed (I'm
not
confirmed as I have a scheduling conflict). More are expected to
join...
note that this is put together by the "Green Party" (no affiliation).
------ forwarded message ------
Here's the itinerary (all times approximate):
Statewide Alternative Energy Convoy – Oct. 26-27, 2002
DAY ONE (Saturday)
Start: 9:30 a.m.
Starting location: Fenway Star Market parking lot, Boylston St. and
Kilmarnock in Boston
Rally for 30 minutes, leave at 10:00 a.m.
1st Route:
-- Boylston St. to Storrow Dr. East,
-- to Rte. 93 North
-- to Tobin Bridge (Rte. 1)
-- Chelsea Exit, to Park St.
-- to Eastern Ave.
1st stop (~10:30 a.m.): Burke Oil (284 Eastern Ave. only biodiesel
retailer in Eastern Mass.)
Candidates talk about the importance of sustainable, non-fossil fuels
2nd Route:
-- Eastern Ave. to Park St. to Second Ave., runs into Rte. 16,
through Everett to Medford
-- South on Rte. 28 (McGrath/O’Brien Highway), right on Somerville
Ave., left on Prospect
-- Right on Cambridge Ave., to Inman Square, Somerville
2nd stop (12:00 noon): Inman Square (1369 Cambridge St. with Lachelier
for State Rep. Campaign)
Candidates talk about the importance of challenging status quo on
Beacon
Hill
3rd Route:
-- Cambridge St. to Mass. Ave.,
-- through Cambridge, into Arlington, past Arlington Hts., into
Lexington
3rd stop (~1:00 p.m.): Lexington Battle Green
Candidates talk about the need to declare independence from foreign oil
4th Route:
-- Mass. Ave. to Rte. 2A West, through Concord, Acton, Littleton,
Ayer, Shirley, Lunenburg, Fitchburg.
-- Left on Rte. 12 to Leominster.
4th stop (~2:30 p.m.): Leominster High School Center for Technical Ed.
Candidates meet students in alternative energy program
Last Route:
-- Rte. 12 back to Rte. 2A West, through Westminster, Gardner,
Templeton,
-- pick up Rte. 2 West to Greenfield.
Last stop (~6:00 p.m.): The People’s Pint
DAY TWO (Sunday)
Start: 9:00 a.m.
Starting location: Greenfield Center, on the Common (Federal and Main
Streets)
1st Route:
-- Rte. 2A to Rte. 5 South, through Deerfield, Whately, Hatfield,
to Northampton
1st stop (~10:30 a.m.): First Church (corner of King and Main)
Candidates rally with Michael Aleo’s campaign, talk about IRV
initiative
2nd Route:
-- Rte. 5 South, through Easthampton, Holyoke to S. Hadley Falls
2nd stop (12:00 noon): South Hadley Falls (corner of Rte. 116 and Main
St.)
Candidates talk about the importance of Smart Growth, sustainable
development
3rd Route:
-- Rte. 5 South to Holyoke
3rd stop (~1:30 p.m.): Holyoke/Springfield
TBD
4th Route:
-- Rte. 5
-- to Rte. 91
-- to Rte. 291
-- to Mass. Tpk. East (Springfield)
-- to Rte. 290 to Worcester
4th stop (~3:00 p.m.): Worcester, Centro Presente
Candidates discuss issues
5th Route:
-- Rte. 9 East
-- to Rte. 20 East,
-- through Shrewsbury, Marlboro, Sudbury, Wayland
5th stop (~5:00 p.m.): Waltham City Hall (610 Main St.)
Meet candidate for U.S. Congress, Dan Melnechuk of Waltham, 7th
District
Last stop (~6:00 p.m.): The Ultimate Political Hangout: Doyle’s in JP,
on Washington St.
------ end forwarded message -----
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S-10
1970s Elec-Trak E20
http://www.eeevee.com
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
My electric truck page, with lots of photos and a 25 page conversion
journal. Check it out!
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/ (no more popups!)
My EV Album page
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is probably not the best test but my blazer had been sitting a day
or two at 75% according to the emeter. I got my heater partially installed
so decided to test out my batteries like some else mentioned. So I turned on
the heater along with the headlights for a 18 amp load for about 15 minutes.
Then I check all the batteries with my old Digital Meter. 16 of my batteries
were at 8.22-8.24 and the other two were ~2 and ~5 volts.
The two bad one's are surely killing my range because I can barely get
25 amp/hrs out of my batteries before they start sagging below 130volts
pulling 100 amps. I was thinking of replacing them now but when I see the
bill and work for getting a new set of most likely 6vgc batteries i'd like
to try to get a little more out of it. This is my first set of batteries but
the 16 good ones I think are pretty good. Would it be worth if for nothing
more then trying it out to get some new batteries to replace the bad ones
and see if I can stretch it a few dozen cycles? It only needs a 15 mile good
range until summer when I can take the plunge into a new set.
Mark Hastings
83' S-10 EVBlazer
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
sorry, this wasn't supposed to go to the list....
On Friday, October 25, 2002, at 11:30 PM, Seth Murray wrote:
Hi Jim -
Are you planning on attending any of these events? if the one in
worcester is close by I'll probably stop in
Seth
On Friday, October 25, 2002, at 11:16 PM, Jim Coate wrote:
So far, 4 hybrids, 2 biodielsels, and ONE electric is confirmed (I'm
not
confirmed as I have a scheduling conflict). More are expected to
join...
note that this is put together by the "Green Party" (no affiliation).
------ forwarded message ------
Here's the itinerary (all times approximate):
Statewide Alternative Energy Convoy – Oct. 26-27, 2002
DAY ONE (Saturday)
Start: 9:30 a.m.
Starting location: Fenway Star Market parking lot, Boylston St. and
Kilmarnock in Boston
Rally for 30 minutes, leave at 10:00 a.m.
1st Route:
-- Boylston St. to Storrow Dr. East,
-- to Rte. 93 North
-- to Tobin Bridge (Rte. 1)
-- Chelsea Exit, to Park St.
-- to Eastern Ave.
1st stop (~10:30 a.m.): Burke Oil (284 Eastern Ave. only biodiesel
retailer in Eastern Mass.)
Candidates talk about the importance of sustainable, non-fossil fuels
2nd Route:
-- Eastern Ave. to Park St. to Second Ave., runs into Rte. 16,
through Everett to Medford
-- South on Rte. 28 (McGrath/O’Brien Highway), right on
Somerville
Ave., left on Prospect
-- Right on Cambridge Ave., to Inman Square, Somerville
2nd stop (12:00 noon): Inman Square (1369 Cambridge St. with
Lachelier
for State Rep. Campaign)
Candidates talk about the importance of challenging status quo on
Beacon
Hill
3rd Route:
-- Cambridge St. to Mass. Ave.,
-- through Cambridge, into Arlington, past Arlington Hts., into
Lexington
3rd stop (~1:00 p.m.): Lexington Battle Green
Candidates talk about the need to declare independence from foreign
oil
4th Route:
-- Mass. Ave. to Rte. 2A West, through Concord, Acton, Littleton,
Ayer, Shirley, Lunenburg, Fitchburg.
-- Left on Rte. 12 to Leominster.
4th stop (~2:30 p.m.): Leominster High School Center for Technical Ed.
Candidates meet students in alternative energy program
Last Route:
-- Rte. 12 back to Rte. 2A West, through Westminster, Gardner,
Templeton,
-- pick up Rte. 2 West to Greenfield.
Last stop (~6:00 p.m.): The People’s Pint
DAY TWO (Sunday)
Start: 9:00 a.m.
Starting location: Greenfield Center, on the Common (Federal and Main
Streets)
1st Route:
-- Rte. 2A to Rte. 5 South, through Deerfield, Whately, Hatfield,
to Northampton
1st stop (~10:30 a.m.): First Church (corner of King and Main)
Candidates rally with Michael Aleo’s campaign, talk about IRV
initiative
2nd Route:
-- Rte. 5 South, through Easthampton, Holyoke to S. Hadley Falls
2nd stop (12:00 noon): South Hadley Falls (corner of Rte. 116 and Main
St.)
Candidates talk about the importance of Smart Growth, sustainable
development
3rd Route:
-- Rte. 5 South to Holyoke
3rd stop (~1:30 p.m.): Holyoke/Springfield
TBD
4th Route:
-- Rte. 5
-- to Rte. 91
-- to Rte. 291
-- to Mass. Tpk. East (Springfield)
-- to Rte. 290 to Worcester
4th stop (~3:00 p.m.): Worcester, Centro Presente
Candidates discuss issues
5th Route:
-- Rte. 9 East
-- to Rte. 20 East,
-- through Shrewsbury, Marlboro, Sudbury, Wayland
5th stop (~5:00 p.m.): Waltham City Hall (610 Main St.)
Meet candidate for U.S. Congress, Dan Melnechuk of Waltham, 7th
District
Last stop (~6:00 p.m.): The Ultimate Political Hangout: Doyle’s in JP,
on Washington St.
------ end forwarded message -----
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S-10
1970s Elec-Trak E20
http://www.eeevee.com
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
My electric truck page, with lots of photos and a 25 page conversion
journal. Check it out!
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/ (no more popups!)
My EV Album page
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
My electric truck page, with lots of photos and a 25 page conversion
journal. Check it out!
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/ (no more popups!)
My EV Album page
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You might have a bad plate buss bar. The cell will work fine at light loads
but reverses under heavy load. I would take it back to the vendor for a
warrantee replacement.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 3:39 PM
Subject: bad battery questions
> Well, I have found out why the voltage in my Pickup tends to be soft.
> I did the deepest cycle yet in my Pickup, about 1/2 of capacity. I
> could keep the pack over 100 volts (120v system), but I really had to
> be careful. Resting voltage was still OK, at just over 120v.
>
> I checked each battery voltage when I got home. 6.09, 6.12, 6.11,
> 4.56!! I continued to finish the check, all where pretty tight except
> that one. Well, I figured that a quick check of the SG would find a
> dead cell or at least low numbers. No, that battery and the others
> around it all read around the 1.22 range. One cell had a few tiny
> bubbles rising in it (with no load at this point), I figure it is the
> bad one, but the SG seems fine for the state of charge. So I tried
> turning on the heater on high. The voltage on that battery dropped to
> about 1.2 volts (and rising, but the negative terminal was still the
> negative). Clearly that stopped the load testing (the same load was
> putting other batteries right at/few hundredths above 6v).
>
> OK, any ideas as to what happened to this battery? Clearly I need to
> replace it. The pack has about 20 cycles on it, most very shallow.
> Hopefully a new one won't get to burned breaking in.
>
> Oh, charging the pack now. After a few minutes at the beginning with
> it still reading under 6v its voltage is matching the rest of the
> pack now (10 amp charge, Lester on 120vac). I do know this battery
> likes to read the highest late in charge (when the pack gets to about
> 150v). However, most of the time its voltage fits right in with the
> rest of the pack, perhaps a couple 100ths of a volt lower.
>
> Neon
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Will the car run with the two stinkers removed?
Sometimes a car will run twice as far with two batteries removed (as in your
case).
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hastings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 8:33 PM
Subject: Is it worth replacing bad batteries?
> This is probably not the best test but my blazer had been sitting a
day
> or two at 75% according to the emeter. I got my heater partially installed
> so decided to test out my batteries like some else mentioned. So I turned
on
> the heater along with the headlights for a 18 amp load for about 15
minutes.
> Then I check all the batteries with my old Digital Meter. 16 of my
batteries
> were at 8.22-8.24 and the other two were ~2 and ~5 volts.
> The two bad one's are surely killing my range because I can barely get
> 25 amp/hrs out of my batteries before they start sagging below 130volts
> pulling 100 amps. I was thinking of replacing them now but when I see the
> bill and work for getting a new set of most likely 6vgc batteries i'd like
> to try to get a little more out of it. This is my first set of batteries
but
> the 16 good ones I think are pretty good. Would it be worth if for nothing
> more then trying it out to get some new batteries to replace the bad ones
> and see if I can stretch it a few dozen cycles? It only needs a 15 mile
good
> range until summer when I can take the plunge into a new set.
>
> Mark Hastings
> 83' S-10 EVBlazer
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you have 12 or 5 volt fans?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: Rudman reg madness
> At 11:28 PM 10/24/2002 -0700, Joe Smalley stated:
> >Good choice. I had a batch of CPU coolers that I wanted to put on some
regs
> >for some serious dissipation.
> >
> >Rich would not go for it since "nobody would pay for them".
>
> They cost 0.89 each from Marlin P. Jones.
> Actually, I ended up with way too many. I think I'll have about 15
extras.
>
> >One way you can save some energy is to only run the fan when the Green
LED
> >is lit. I can tell you where to hook the fan to make this work. That way,
> >you don't need a central power supply with the wires running everywhere.
>
> I'd really like to know how to do that!
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@;CasaDelGato.Com
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A coat hanger with .093 wire will draw about 150 amps from a 12 volt
battery, 100 amps from an 8 volt battery or 75 amps from a 6 volt battery.
Parallel two or more to get more current.
Connect the coat hanger to some 6 gage or larger jumper cables and submerge
the wire in water. Don't use a plastic bucket. The hot wire can make it
leak.
Connect your voltmeter to the battery terminals of the battery under test.
Connect the jumper cables to the battery terminals.
Wait for a fixed amount of time (your choice on how far you want to
discharge the batteries) and read the final voltage.
Disconnect the jumper cables from the battery.
Record the voltage.
The bad ones show up pretty quickly using this test.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 7:46 AM
Subject: Load tester for 6,8 &12 volt use.
> Can a load tester be made from a resistor, a light bulb and a multimeter
or
> some other trick method or do I have to go out and buy one. I need one to
> find the best batterys in my collection. I don't need exact values I just
> need to know which batteries are strongest. Lawrence Rhodes...
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Way off topic here but I thought I would let everyone know about it.
An outlet store called Big Lot's has 4-packs of Panasonic's 1500mah AA NiMh
batteries for only $4.95. I don't know if this store has outlets across the
nation but it generally has the same merchandise at all of it's stores. I
just wish I could buy more of them.
John David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Paul,
I've seen several batteries do this kind of thing. For whatever
reason, the capacity of a couple of cells in that battery have
been greatly reduced. Probably loss of intimacy between the
active material (the lead paste) and the plate's grid (which is
connected to the busbar connecting to the battery's posts) is the
most likely cause. Overcharging can warp plates, causing loss of
intimacy. Maybe you hit a hard bump one day, or vehicle
vibration just caught up with these particular cells, etc. (heavy
discharges, high current discharges - whatever tears plates up),
and now you have defective cells. It would seem that Optimas
with their glass-mat spiral wound plates would be more resistant
to vibration fatigue, and maybe they are, but seems they funk out
too, and are expensive to boot! So in your case, you are now
truly carrying some Dead Lead - about 20-30 lbs worth!
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 3:39 PM
Subject: bad battery questions
> Well, I have found out why the voltage in my Pickup tends to be
soft.
> I did the deepest cycle yet in my Pickup, about 1/2 of
capacity. I
> could keep the pack over 100 volts (120v system), but I really
had to
> be careful. Resting voltage was still OK, at just over 120v.
>
> I checked each battery voltage when I got home. 6.09, 6.12,
6.11,
> 4.56!! I continued to finish the check, all where pretty tight
except
> that one. Well, I figured that a quick check of the SG would
find a
> dead cell or at least low numbers. No, that battery and the
others
> around it all read around the 1.22 range. One cell had a few
tiny
> bubbles rising in it (with no load at this point), I figure it
is the
> bad one, but the SG seems fine for the state of charge. So I
tried
> turning on the heater on high. The voltage on that battery
dropped to
> about 1.2 volts (and rising, but the negative terminal was
still the
> negative). Clearly that stopped the load testing (the same load
was
> putting other batteries right at/few hundredths above 6v).
>
> OK, any ideas as to what happened to this battery? Clearly I
need to
> replace it. The pack has about 20 cycles on it, most very
shallow.
> Hopefully a new one won't get to burned breaking in.
>
> Oh, charging the pack now. After a few minutes at the beginning
with
> it still reading under 6v its voltage is matching the rest of
the
> pack now (10 amp charge, Lester on 120vac). I do know this
battery
> likes to read the highest late in charge (when the pack gets to
about
> 150v). However, most of the time its voltage fits right in with
the
> rest of the pack, perhaps a couple 100ths of a volt lower.
>
> Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone on the list seen bumper stickers that say "I (picture of
a heart) OPEC"? I saw a picture of one on an SUV bumper on a friend's
computer but he doesn't remember where he got it. Any ideas on where to get
some?
John David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is, perhaps, time for a bigger fuse.
I've previously had the pleasure of driving John Wayland's Blue Meanie 1200
Datsun "muscle car" before. And to be honest, while it showcases beautiful
craftsmanship, thoughtful design, and a gorgeous restoration (not to mention
the incredible violet-purple interference paint job), it just didn't really
peg my EV-grin with its acceleration. I mean, it was good, but not
incredible. The slipping clutch is what was holding the car back. I was left
wondering, "was John just telling tall tales of burning rubber?"
My visit today has implored me to reevaluate the vehicle. First, John showed
me the new charge inlet that just perfectly fits in the original filler neck
hole - as if the flush-mount inlet was designed specifically for the Datsun
1200. Very cool. Then he pointed out the gorgeous PFC-20 charger proudly
displayed and neatly secured under the hood with its spunky blue LED and
quick-disconnect setup. I'm impressed, and after seeing the PFC-20 in
action, I want one. The variable speed fans provide perfect audible feedback
of charging progress, and this charger can be a simple plug-and-forget
affair the way an EV should work.
After a hearty breakfast featuring German pancakes and two brief warm-up
drives for Meanie's Yellowtop pack, John invited me to take the car out for
a "spin." Of course I had brought my Canon ELPH S110 digital which can not
only take incredible stills but reasonably useful short videos complete with
sound. We had to get this on video, and we even planned out the shots.
Backing the car out of the driveway was, mostly, uneventful... Well except
it has so much get-up-and-go that it wants to burn rubber backwards. Erch!
ERCH! ERRRCH! You have to be very gentle on the accelerator.
I pull up to the thoroughfare in preparation to merge briskly into traffic.
John had the video camera rolling, and per his instructions I punched it in
2nd from a dead stop with the clutch out.
EeeeRRRRRS~whine~SCRREE~whine~EEEERRERRE~peel~RERCHHCHHHHCHCHHchchCHHCHCHCHC
hchchhch...
RhchchRHHC~whooooosh~HCHCHR~hoooolllllyyy~CRAAAP!!!~HCHHhhhhh!!!!
AND I'm off! Wow, is that tire smoke I smell? Well, I guess that was a
successful merge. I don't think I inconvenienced anyone with my pokey
electric car. Um, time to shift up to 3rd... Ooh more torque! Let's try
gliding along in 4th. Silence, and yet it still pulls effortlessly. No
slipping clutch. This is good.
So I decide I better turn back around before I get lost. This car is fun. It
burns rubber on command, and even pins you back into the seat more
effortlessly than the EV1... And there's no computer to shake it's finger at
you with a "LOSS OF TRACTION, IDIOT" light.
Cruising along at 45 MPH in 4th, I sink my foot into the accelerator again
to feel that seductive pull of power. Ahhh. CLICK. Where'd my power go? Uh
oh. I broke John's car! I quickly hatch a plan to coast into a mall parking
lot. Thanks to the low rolling resistance tires we had just topped off to 50
psi. The blue EV easily rolled into a carefully selected Dent-Free(tm)
parking spot.
Soon I was greeted by a curious passer-by who after noticing Mike Chancey's
'ELECTRIC' emblem on the trunk lid asked me if this was "one of those
electric cars." We talked a bit, then he asked "So, who makes this one...
Oh, DATSUN, of course!" He was shocked when I said the car was a conversion
of a 1972 Datsun 1200. I thought for a moment we were going to get into an
argument over whether I was pulling his leg and the car was really a current
issue.
After many unanswered phone calls to John's home and mobile phone, I figured
I'd be walking back. He was probably waiting at the street with camera in
hand oblivious to my situation. :-)
Let's see, both E-Meters are blinking madly at me. Main pack voltage is...
69.5! What? On a 156v car? 12v meter says 10.2. Nothing works. Not good. I
wonder if the meters have lost their settings. Loose connection?
Overheating? Blown battery? Blown controller? Operator error? What could it
be...
Finally after successful communication, John comes to the rescue on one of
his many electric scooters with a 12v battery strapped to the back. We
initially thought the DC-DC converter had not been working and I simply lost
sufficient voltage on the 12v system. We connected up an SVR battery in
parallel. Got volts. Um, but the car still doesn't want to turn on.
Something BAD must have happened. John looked very disheartened... This
would be called the "Blown-Controller-Look."
Wait! The FUSE! The main pack 200A "custom designed" high-voltage butterfly
time-delay fuse that, according to John, has lasted for the last 9 years
unscathed, finally gave its life due to my selfish indulgence in the
addicting power of the non-slipping clutch combined with stout Optima
batteries. I feel somehow honored to be the first to blow Blue Meanie's main
fuse in a fit of acceleration.
What's amazing is this car's acceleration (and nimble handling). Really -
you can light up the tires in 2nd and even 3rd gear. What's even more
impressive is that the bakers' dozen of Optima Yellowtops are now five years
old! I imagine fresh batteries might test the fuse again. Well, it is time
for a bigger fuse anyway....
Stay tuned for part 2 where we replace the fuse and turn an ordinary
bench-top drill press into a freakish whipping machine.
--
Geoff Shepherd
1998 Factory Ford Ranger Electric
2000 Honda Insight
--- End Message ---
