EV Digest 2452

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: Electric Scooter
        by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: EVs - how to charge without a private garage
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Alternator/ motor setup
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Question about ammeter with regen
        by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: EVs - how to charge without a private garage
        by "Chad Peddy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) OT - A very  powful tool - it wasn't me!
        by Janez Svetlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: Silent Running, an' OT stuff, a bit.
        by "Walker, Lesley R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: EV List messages delayed through SJSU
        by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Silent Running
        by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: EV List messages delayed through SJSU
        by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) EV List Weirdness
        by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: EV List constipation
        by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Surplus aircraft nicads
        by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Surplus aircraft nicads
        by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) "paul-g" - your email doesn't work!
        by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: EV List Weirdness
        by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: "paul-g" - your email doesn't work!
        by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Fw: Electric vehicles are not dead.
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: EV List Weirdness
        by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: EVs - how to charge without a private garage
        by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Charger standards
        by "Alan Shedd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: EVs - how to charge without a private garage
        by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Surplus aircraft nicads
        by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Silent Running, an' OT stuff, a bit.
        by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Potentially incredibly cool device for sale
        by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) RE: Silent Running
        by "Walker, Lesley R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) EV vs ICE perspective
        by Nick Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: EVs - how to charge without a private garage
        by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: Silent Running was(Re: Responding to EV Naysayers)
        by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 30) Re: Surplus aircraft nicads
        by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 31) RE: EV List Weirdness
        by "Walker, Lesley R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hey yeah, those are all great, but the only problem is only one of them has
a top speed of over 35 mph.  I'm not a speed freak, in fact most of my
commute I never get over 35 anyway, but I have about 2 miles I HAVE to
travel that's on a 55mph road and if you can't do at LEAST 45-50, they'll
run you over or off the road!

I do like the "big" three wheeler.  If they offered that bad boy with say a
60mph top speed but similar range, I'd buy it tomorrow!!

James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562

Life would be much easier if I had the source code.


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Chad Peddy
Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 10:54 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Electric Scooter


I have been looking into converting or buying an electric scooter
I found just the place.

http://www.thezero.net

The EVT168 is an electric Vespa

Chad


---
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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Randy Stern wrote:
> I am strongly considering purchasing an EV. However, there are
> potential roadblocks in my plan and I wonder if you answer my
> questions.
> 
> I live in New York City in an apartment building. I do not own a
> home with a garage, meaning I would have no means of plugging in
> the EV as I'd be parking on the street. Is there such a thing as
> a charger that plugs into the wall, stores electricity, and then
> can be placed inside the vehicle when not in use, plugged into the
> vehicle, allowing the vehicle to charge?

Well, yes; it's called a 'battery'. You could remove your EV's battery,
carry it to your apartment where you plug it in for recharging, and then
carry it back out to the car for driving. But batteries are heavy; this
is only practical for very small EVs, like an electric bike or scooter.
> 
> Or, if such a thing does not exist, can a solar panel be installed
> on an EV to gather sunlight to charge the batteries, thereby
> eliminating the need to plug in?

They work, but the amount of power you get per square foot is small. If
you covered the hood, trunk, and roof of a car with solar panels, and
the car was parked somewhere that was not shaded by trees or buildings,
the solar panels would produce enough electricity to drive a few miles
per day.

> Are there any ways around the problem of owning an EV as an apartment
> dweller? I look forward to your response.

It's a challenge!

Your best bet would be to find a parking place that has an AC outlet
nearby. If you rent your parking place, and it is assigned to you, you
can talk to the owner or manager to see if he can provide an outlet (for
an extra charge, of course! :-)

If possible, have the outlet metered, so you can pay him for the
electricity used. He will no doubt think it will be expensive; but EVs
actually use very little electricity. A full-sized car EV goes about 3
miles on a KWH of electricity. If you're paying 10 cents per KWH, and
your EV stores 10 KWH, that's only 3.33 cents per mile!
-- 
Lee A. Hart                Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N.            Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA      There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net  That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jay Donnaway wrote:
> Reading the discussion on alternator inefficiency and an alternator's
> low power when used as a motor; what's to stop one from rigging your
> own parallel hybrid by replacing the ICE's alternator with a DC
> motor/generator such as the 6.7" Advanced DC motor, and then using
> a DC-DC converter/charger and battery to power 12v accessories? (a
> homemade version of Honda's Intergrated Motor Asssist).

Nothing, except the basic mechanical details. It would be a crude
version of Honda's IMA, or the 42v IMA system other automakers have been
talking about (but not doing).

You'd need room to mount the motor-generator. That might be a challenge,
as under-hood space is often crowded.

You'd have to connect the motor-generator to the engine, probably with a
belt. Assuming it is considerably larger than the old alternator, the
belt would also need to be correspondingly larger; a wider flat belt, or
perhaps multiple v-belts. Direct drive would be neat, but few cars have
room for a large motor-generator right in line with the crankshaft
pulley.

Most Advanced DC (brand) motors are series motors. These are difficult
to use as generators. A better choice would be a PM (permanent magnet),
shunt or separately-excited motor, preferably with a series field to
work better as a starter (more torque).

> On a simpler note, is anyone aware of a plug-in hybrid conversion
> that added the DC motor to an ICE via an accessory drive belt?

Certainly there have been many prototypes. Tractors, aircraft, trucks,
and other vehicles have been using combined starter-generators for many,
many years. It doesn't take much effort to run one of these as a hybrid.
-- 
Lee A. Hart                Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N.            Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA      There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net  That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The best way is as Lee suggested - to move "Zero" toward middle of the
scale. Mechanical zeroing usually allows for it. Done it.

Connecting unmodified ammeter backwards won't hurt it as long
as you don't exceed it's rating for forward current.

Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have you looked into something like this?
http://www.thezero.net/
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: EVs - how to charge without a private garage


> Randy Stern wrote:
> > I am strongly considering purchasing an EV. However, there are
> > potential roadblocks in my plan and I wonder if you answer my
> > questions.
> > 
> > I live in New York City in an apartment building. I do not own a
> > home with a garage, meaning I would have no means of plugging in
> > the EV as I'd be parking on the street. Is there such a thing as
> > a charger that plugs into the wall, stores electricity, and then
> > can be placed inside the vehicle when not in use, plugged into the
> > vehicle, allowing the vehicle to charge?
> 
> Well, yes; it's called a 'battery'. You could remove your EV's battery,
> carry it to your apartment where you plug it in for recharging, and then
> carry it back out to the car for driving. But batteries are heavy; this
> is only practical for very small EVs, like an electric bike or scooter.
> > 
> > Or, if such a thing does not exist, can a solar panel be installed
> > on an EV to gather sunlight to charge the batteries, thereby
> > eliminating the need to plug in?
> 
> They work, but the amount of power you get per square foot is small. If
> you covered the hood, trunk, and roof of a car with solar panels, and
> the car was parked somewhere that was not shaded by trees or buildings,
> the solar panels would produce enough electricity to drive a few miles
> per day.
> 
> > Are there any ways around the problem of owning an EV as an apartment
> > dweller? I look forward to your response.
> 
> It's a challenge!
> 
> Your best bet would be to find a parking place that has an AC outlet
> nearby. If you rent your parking place, and it is assigned to you, you
> can talk to the owner or manager to see if he can provide an outlet (for
> an extra charge, of course! :-)
> 
> If possible, have the outlet metered, so you can pay him for the
> electricity used. He will no doubt think it will be expensive; but EVs
> actually use very little electricity. A full-sized car EV goes about 3
> miles on a KWH of electricity. If you're paying 10 cents per KWH, and
> your EV stores 10 KWH, that's only 3.33 cents per mile!
> -- 
> Lee A. Hart                Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N.            Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA      There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net  That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
> 
> 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

jsvetlin wrote:
> 
> * LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message  *
> 
> ----

All my mails always include my full name. This one was not from me.

Scanned for viruses. None.

>From wednesday to saturday i didn't receive a single mail from list.
Listserv didn't respond to queries either.

Am I the only one having this kind of problems?

Janez Svetlin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Rice wrote:
>    Other train guyz have said"Ya outta put a bell on that thing!" All
> locomotives are equipped with a air operated bell, of which 
> you as "driver" are supposed to put on BEFORE moving , hoping that it
> will warn anybody
> around that you are about to go.A electronic "Dinger" would be an easy
> hookup on an electric, rather than the racious "Back up" 
> alarm on trux.

Thanks for the feedback, Bob, and I think that's a good suggestion from
your colleagues.  I think I'll include a "dinger" in the plans for my
EV when I get to building it, and hopefully find a way to set it up so
it will operate continuously until the vehicle's speed is above 5mph.

-- 
Lesley Walker
Unix Engineering, EDS New Zealand
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"[Hybrid electric vehicles] are self-sustaining,
as long as you keep putting gas in the tank."
     --- James R. Healey, USA Today
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I received an answer back from SJSU support
about the 1 (or more) hour delay to have POSTs
to go through their network.
 
SJSU system admins will know of the delays their 
email system is causing. But I hope the message 
sent was not email, as it will be delayed too :-(


-
Subject:  Re: EV List messages delayed
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 06:55:42 -0800

Yeah, there is definitely a delay in outbound mail.  
Have messaged our Unix sysadmin.
-





=====
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. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above EV ascci art)
=====

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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,

"Walker, Lesley R" wrote:

> John Wayland wrote:
> > It would be hard to find 'any' ICE powered car that can roll up
> > to a pedestrian in near total silence like my EV can....
>
> So... do you get pedestrians unexpectedly walking out in front of you?
> Do you find you have to look out for them more than you would in an
> ICE car?

Yes to both questions, unless of course, I have my sound system playing :-) At the 
local
grocery store, when moving out of a parking spot and coming down the lane with folks
walking dead ahead of the me, oblivious that my car is coming up from behind, not 
wanting
to be rude by honking the horn at them, I often have to send the window down and 
politely
say, "Excuse me...." to get their attention.

See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since the last message went through normally (fast), looks
like the SJSU outgoing email server issue is resolved.

 -Bruce

=====
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~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above EV ascci art)
=====

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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,

I have a question....I've sent three versions of my long-ish post 'Responding to EV
Naysayers...More Blue Meanie Tales', starting yesterday, Sunday, and it's now nearly 
2:30
pm on Moday, and I still have not yet received any of them back to me as incoming mail
from the EV List. I have sent a few shorter emails and they seem to go out and come 
back
in less than a minute. I had just sent out another response to 'Silent Running' in 
answer
to  Lesley Walker's question, and it came back from the list to me almost instantly, 
yet,
all three versions of my long post have still not come in. Were it not for Rick Pryor's
response to 'Responding to EV Naysayers...More Blue Meanie Tales' to the list and a 
phone
conversation with Geoff Shepherd where he told me he had received it, I would still be
thinking my posts never made it to the list. Anybody have an explanation for me?

Sorry to those who might have had to endure three different sendings of that same long
email of mine....

See Ya.......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, maybe the issue is not resolved.

I sent the first message with this subject on Saturday.
If it is just now coming out on Monday, then there are
going to be many POSTs that could be still trickling out.

 -Bruce


=====
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above EV ascci art)
=====

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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:16 PM 12/1/2002 -0800, Joe Smalley stated:
I would be concerned that the two parallel strings might have different end
voltages and would need some sort of pack isolation at end of charge.

If the cells are well matched, they should work fine in parallel.

If they do not match, then I would use two separate charger feeds.
Sounds like it would be a good idea to have essentially 2 main contactors (or at least a Double Pole one). That way the strings would be in parallel only when the car was ON.

How hard would it be to setup a solid-state switch for the charger? Something that would hook the charger to each string alternately? Every few seconds? Minutes? (Hey, pulsed charging! but that's probably only good for lead-acid.)

--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:35 PM 12/2/2002 -0800, John Lussmyer stated:
At 09:16 PM 12/1/2002 -0800, Joe Smalley stated:
I would be concerned that the two parallel strings might have different end
voltages and would need some sort of pack isolation at end of charge.

If the cells are well matched, they should work fine in parallel.

If they do not match, then I would use two separate charger feeds.
Sounds like it would be a good idea to have essentially 2 main contactors (or at least a Double Pole one). That way the strings would be in parallel only when the car was ON.
5 seconds after sending that.. How about a pair of honking big diodes? Or even 4 of them. (2 to allow charging with no cross current, 2 to allow discharge with no cross current - though these later 2 may need to be too big for sanity.)

--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Someone with the email address of "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" contacted me about my Optima problems, and all replies to him bounce back....
Anyone know an alternate email address for him?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- John,
I received your post about 4 times (it was an awesome post, but I only read it once :-)
I have also received 3-5 duplicate posts from other people. Something strange is definately
going on, but I have no explanation.
Rod

John Wayland wrote:

Hello to All,

I have a question....I've sent three versions of my long-ish post 'Responding to EV
Naysayers...More Blue Meanie Tales', starting yesterday, Sunday, and it's now nearly 2:30
pm on Moday, and I still have not yet received any of them back to me as incoming mail
from the EV List. I have sent a few shorter emails and they seem to go out and come back
in less than a minute. I had just sent out another response to 'Silent Running' in answer
to Lesley Walker's question, and it came back from the list to me almost instantly, yet,
all three versions of my long post have still not come in. Were it not for Rick Pryor's
response to 'Responding to EV Naysayers...More Blue Meanie Tales' to the list and a phone
conversation with Geoff Shepherd where he told me he had received it, I would still be
thinking my posts never made it to the list. Anybody have an explanation for me?

Sorry to those who might have had to endure three different sendings of that same long
email of mine....

See Ya.......John Wayland



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone with the email address of "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" contacted me about my Optima problems, and all replies to him bounce back....
Anyone know an alternate email address for him?
My bad :-(

I mis-entered my e-mail address in Eudora settings when I changed ISPs. If you use mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] it should work. I had accidentally entered psul-g, so ATT wasn't listing my return address at all (from instead). Its possible there are posts on this list from me with this same error, sorry.

If you are getting bounced with the address correct you can also use my old address of mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] for a few more days (and please let me know if correctly addressed mail to me is getting bounced).

Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is an email I sent to the Chronicle writer who said EVs were dead.
Lawrence Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 3:49 PM
Subject: Electric vehicles are not dead.


> Electric vehicles are all but dead. Complicated and expensive fuel-cell
> technology is still a decade or two away from viability. So, for the
nonce,
> automakers see hybrids as the best way to meet tightening emissions
> regulations and consumer demands for improved fuel economy.
>
> I am sorry to disagree hybrids still run on gas and still pollute.
> I just finished the conversion of a 1997 Ford Aspire.  It has batteries
> below the floor and in the engine compartment.  Not a single inch of space
> was lost in the interior.  This is a conversion and not a ground up
design.
> If designed from the ground up it would be better.
> In 1998 a vehicle called the Sunrise went almost 400 miles in a Trip from
> Boston to New York City.  It was a ground up design and ran on Nickle
Metal
> Hydride batteries.
> A year later  Chrysler ran their Minivan (EPIC)  1200 miles in one day
> demonstrating quick charge technology.  That vehicle only had an 80 mile
> range.  The quick charge made the difference.
> Today you can buy a two seat Gem for 3700 dollars.  Great for around town.
> Costs about a penny per mile to run.
> I don't see anyone complaining about their Lithium ion powered cell phones
> or power books.  If us EVers had that technology ranges of 3 to 400 miles
> could  be had with those batteries in a car.  Even more with flywheel
> batteries or certain refillable batteries like Zinc air.  A small cart
like
> vehicle traveled 1000 miles in three days going 25mph around Alameda Naval
> airstation to demonstrate Zinc Air batteries. (1998)
> There is only one reason this propaganda about electric vehicles is
tauted.
> These vehicles are low maintainance.  Uncomplicated.  Durable.
Dependable.
> Worst of all these things make them unprofitable.  Look at the 20 systems
> that are needed to make an internal combustion vehicle work.  They all
> generate money for the car companies because they need to be replaced.
> The thing the car companies and oil companies fear most is Electric
vehicles
> and Photovotaic cells on the roof of your house.  Basically free energy.
> Lawrence Rhodes.....  San Francisco Home owner and electric vehicle
driver.
> 1997 Ford Aspire electric conversion.  Lectra Motorcycle, Laher cart and
and
> electric bicycle.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,

I guess the weirdness continues. I just downloaded 45 emails, but my last  'EV List
Weirdness' post from hours ago wasn't part of those :-(   I did get this one from Rod 
Hower,
thanks Rod, for answering my question, so I know that my latest post made it to the 
list, but
again, I never saw the post, so it makes me wonder how many posts I'm not getting 
right now.
Sorry my duplicate posts all made it.

Sure hope the problem gets fixed soon, I'm feeling alone and scared out here in 
cyberspace.

Rod Hower wrote:

> John,
> I received your post about 4 times (it was an awesome post, but I only
> read it once :-)
> I have also received 3-5 duplicate posts from other people.  Something
> strange is definately
> going on, but I have no explanation.
> Rod
>
> John Wayland wrote:
>
> >Hello to All,
> >
> >I have a question....I've sent three versions of my long-ish post 'Responding to EV
> >Naysayers...More Blue Meanie Tales', starting yesterday, Sunday, and it's now 
>nearly 2:30
> >pm on Moday, and I still have not yet received any of them back to me as incoming 
>mail
> >from the EV List. I have sent a few shorter emails and they seem to go out and come 
>back
> >in less than a minute. I had just sent out another response to 'Silent Running' in 
>answer
> >to  Lesley Walker's question, and it came back from the list to me almost 
>instantly, yet,
> >all three versions of my long post have still not come in. Were it not for Rick 
>Pryor's
> >response to 'Responding to EV Naysayers...More Blue Meanie Tales' to the list and a 
>phone
> >conversation with Geoff Shepherd where he told me he had received it, I would still 
>be
> >thinking my posts never made it to the list. Anybody have an explanation for me?
> >
> >Sorry to those who might have had to endure three different sendings of that same 
>long
> >email of mine....
> >
> >See Ya.......John Wayland
> >
> >
> >
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I worked at Nova Cruz, the folks who made the eX3 and eventually
the Voloci, one of the ideas was a light EV that could have either the
whole vehicle (eX3) or the battery at least (Voloci) brought inside to
charge off 110VAC (or 220) I didn't stick around for the Voloci
introduction, but that was the idea in 2001.

That being said, check on people's experiences with the eX3 and the
voloci at places like yahoo groups and such. I think the  (bring the
battery to the wall outlet) idea was sound. There were certainly battery
issues with the eX3 in early units, but when it worked, it worked well
and as low as 10 watt-hours/mile. And it would carry 10+ lbs of person
per pound of vehicle. AFAIK, the Voloci doesn't have that many units in
circulation yet.

Not a plug, but a truly light or modular EV might be the thing to have.

Seth

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> Here's a question from a non-evdl'er, which could use some good feedback
> from the experiences across the list. Please respond back to Randy's email
> address (randynerve-at-nethere-dot-com) and cc the list, since these are
> common questions by those who need to charge but lack a private garage.
> Thanks.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am strongly considering purchasing an EV. However, there are potential
> roadblocks in my plan and I wonder if you answer my questions.
> 
> I live in New York City in an apartment building. I do not own a home with a
> garage, meaning I would have no means of plugging in the EV as I'd be
> parking on the street. Is there such a thing as a charger that plugs into
> the wall, stores electricity, and then can be placed inside the vehicle when
> not in use, plugged into the vehicle, allowing the vehicle to charge?
> 
> Or, if such a thing does not exist, can a solar panel be installed on an EV
> to gather sunlight to charge the batteries, thereby eliminating the need to
> plug in?
> 
> Are there any ways around the problem of owning an EV as an apartment
> dweller? I look forward to your response.
> 
> Thank you,
> Randy Stern

-- 
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi:

A public facility is considering installing public EV charging stations.
They asked what kind of equipment they needed to provide.  A year or so ago,
the answer seemed clear-cut.  You needed to provide an inductive
paddle-style charger for EV-1s and a conductive charger for Fords and
RAV-4s.  I see more on the list about Avcon connectors.  I am partial to
providing public access to NEMA 5-20R, a 30-Amp twistlock common to marine
and RV powercords, or possibly a big NEMA 15-50R receptacle for homebuilt
use but I understand that there are probably lots of legal and safety
implications to this.

What is common practice now?  With more NEVs and small EVs using 120V power,
what provisions should be included for them?

Thanks for the advice.

-Alan

Alan C. Shedd, P.E.
Advisor to Georgia's Electric Vehicle Education Program
(cell) 770-654-0027
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- This can be a challenge, especially as rumor holds that private parking spaces in NYC rent for what houses rent for elsewhere.

If you are a standardized worker with a defined work place, maybe could turn the scenario around and charge at work easier than at home? This would of course require negotiations with your employer to have an outdoor outlet installed for you and to work out payment for the electricity.

It could also drive up the cost of the EV as might need to look at something like NiCads to get the needed range and to survive being parked at your house for a long weekend without being charged. Of course this also limits you ability to go much of anywhere on the weekends. Definitely a challenge.


Randy Stern wrote:
I live in New York City in an apartment building. I do not own a
home with a garage, meaning I would have no means of plugging in
the EV as I'd be parking on the street.
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- From looking at Nickle-based batteries, one thing to watch out for is the higher maximum system voltage. ie for Evercell's they seem to be recomending 16 volts per 12 volt battery at the end of charge. For SAFT NiCads I'm seeeing numbers around 18 volts.

So for instance if I were to put a 192 volt system in my truck, I'd have to replace the 250 volt fuses I'm now using as the max voltage would be approaching 290 volts.

Or for a 156 volt system such as the Sparrow, would need fuses, controller, dc/dc etc all rated for over 235 volts max.

(and for kicks I figured out I'd have to cram in something like 500 of those surplus batteries to make a truck size pack... not really the right size cell for my needs)


John G. Lussmyer wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
<a lot of good stuff about possible use of NiCads in a Sparrow>


_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Soon after I got my truck (wow, that is 4 years now!?), I added a back-up beeper as I didn't want to run over anyone in parking lots, particularly as I work at schools with little kids around.

But pretty soon the embarrassment factor of beeping away to pull out of the driveway early in the morning or way too late at night while neighbors were sleeping caused me to take it back out. And it really hasn't been a problem for the past 3.5 years.

Walker, Lesley R wrote:
Bob Rice wrote:
Other train guyz have said"Ya outta put a bell on that thing!" All
locomotives are equipped with a air operated bell, of which you as "driver" are supposed to put on BEFORE moving , hoping that it
will warn anybody
around that you are about to go.A electronic "Dinger" would be an easy
hookup on an electric, rather than the racious "Back up" alarm on trux.

Thanks for the feedback, Bob, and I think that's a good suggestion from
your colleagues.  I think I'll include a "dinger" in the plans for my
EV when I get to building it, and hopefully find a way to set it up so
it will operate continuously until the vehicle's speed is above 5mph.

_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I quote from the ad:

'AeroViornment Inc AV SPC-2000 Solar Pump Controller (DC/AC inverter) for
1.5HP (1100W) 1 phase or 2.5HP (2000W) three phase motors'

The SPC-2000 is capable of controlling 115, 208, or 230VAC single or three
phase motors. It continuously monitors system performance and incorperats a
number of features for pump system protection including LEDs to indicate
type of fault. It consists of a heavy duty 18"x12"x4.5" metal cabinet with
internal plastic protection cover. These are rated 13A peak current and
9.5amp RMS current with a min speed of 30hz and a max speed of 69hz. It has
underload auto shutoff, overload auto shutff, and auto shutoff for full
reservior. Input voltage 150V up to a max of 600VDC. Current input maximum
is 8 amps. These are new with installation manuals, no warantee. 23 lbs.

$149 each from Electronic Goldmine (www.goldmine-elec.com)


Thought someone might be able to find something clever to do with this. Not
sure what, but something.

S.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
> Yes to both questions, unless of course, I have my sound 
> system playing :-)

Of course.  And the percentage of time that your sound system
is not playing would be pretty small, I'm guessing?  :-)

> At the local
> grocery store, when moving out of a parking spot and coming 
> down the lane with folks
> walking dead ahead of the me, oblivious that my car is coming 
> up from behind, not wanting
> to be rude by honking the horn at them, I often have to send 
> the window down and politely
> say, "Excuse me...." to get their attention.

That would drive me nuts.  I'll definitely need a "dinger", or
else a Wayland-style sound system.  :-)

-- 
Lesley Walker
Unix Engineering, EDS New Zealand
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"[Hybrid electric vehicles] are self-sustaining,
as long as you keep putting gas in the tank."
     --- James R. Healey, USA Today
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>General Motors' termination of its money-losing electric car
>program

as opposed to Ford and it's $5.5 billion-losing ICE
SUV and truck program...

Happy EV'ing,
Nick

Dr Nick Carter,
Owner, npc Imaging,
2228 Magowan Dr.,
Santa Rosa, CA 95405
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Tel/fax: +1 (707) 573 9361
http://www.npcimaging.com

Th!nk City EV driver (over 8,000 miles on our car) &
President, North Bay Chapter, Electric Auto Association
"Spare the air every day - drive electric!"

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***************************************************************
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> voloci at places like yahoo groups and such. I think the  (bring the
> battery to the wall outlet) idea was sound. There were certainly battery
> issues with the eX3 in early units, but when it worked, it worked well
> and as low as 10 watt-hours/mile. And it would carry 10+ lbs of person
> per pound of vehicle. AFAIK, the Voloci doesn't have that many units in
> circulation yet.

as an apartment dweller, the Voloci and the eGO are the top choices for
me...  

the eGO has the advantage of it highly integrated regen system (makes it
good and steady for a cargo-hauler; they make a trailer for it), whereas
the Voloci is a really rugged frame with the BIG advantage you speak of -
ie: swappable battery packs (the eGO battery can be swapped, but not
without spending time unscrewing the compartment lid)...  

I think the potential range is about the same on both, the Voloci being the 
sports model and the eGO the workhorse

the Voloci has light NiHM packs (ca. 20lbs each), which allow the prospect
of carrying two or three extras in a backpack, whereas the eGO uses heavier
(ca. 50lbs) lead packs... the Voloci also has a weight advantage at 80lbs
w/battery over the ca. 120lbs (w/bat) for the eGO, which makes the Voloci 
that much easier to drag up the stairs

all in all, the eGO will be the first to get my disposable income, but the
Voloci is definitely on the list... with any luck, commercial exploitation
of lithium-iron-phosphate and NiZN batteries will develop rapidly and 
become standard on both

an entire gig for the eGO (including a couple extra batteries and one 
charger per battery, plus the trailer) is about $2500...  for the Voloci, 
with a few extra batteries and the quick-chargers for them (there is no 
trailer for the Voloci) is about $5000 (these are rough thumbnail 
prices... check out places like ExtremeGreenMachines [I'm not associated; 
it's just a place I go to drewl])

then again, if it's only about short-range mobility (ie: in the city, 
without cargo) a Currie Phat Flyer might be in order (it's cheap, ca. 
$350), but I don't know much about the battery or any mods that have been 
made... anyone done Currie scooter mods?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ah yes, tire noise is a lot of what impinges on the ears,
especially around freeways.  But one of the most irritating
things about gas and diesel cars is that you can't get away from
the infernal, never-ending noise of people starting their cars,
revving them up, etc., unless you live out in the country (and
this is one of the main reasons I want to move waaaay out in the
country).  I also consider motorcycles to be the worst of the
bunch.  The amount of valley-filling noise that many motorcycles,
snowmobiles, etc. make is far out of proportion to their size and
weight, and almost all of that noise is due to the ICE.  How many
of us have been out in the country, the supposed wilderness, and
then had to listen to snowmobile racket.  For goodness sakes, if
it's going to be out there, consider making it electric!  How
about it Yellowstone types?

----- Original Message -----
From: beckettw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 12:34 PM
Subject: RE: Silent Running was(Re: Responding to EV Naysayers)


> I really disagree with this notion.  Most of the noise coming
from
> today's vehicles comes from the tires not the engines.  The
only time I
> have experienced any safety issues like this in the eight years
I have
> been driving electric vehicles, has been when I am in a parking
lots at
> very slow speeds.  I have been using an electric bike a lot in
the last
> six month (1600 miles) and I have more of a problem with
vehicles not
> following the rules of the road.  For this I use my eyes much
more than
> my ears and I am careful to look at the eyes of the other
drivers.
>
> - Will
>
> Will Beckett
>
> Contact information (https://ecardfile.com/id/will_beckett)
>
> Become a member or donate to the Electric Auto Association,
donations
> are tax deductible. http://eaaev.org/eaamembership.html
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
> Behalf Of damon henry
> Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 9:42 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Silent Running was(Re: Responding to EV Naysayers)
>
>
> I love the silence of an EV, but I also know there is a huge
downside to
>
> this.  If there were a significant number of EV's on the rode I
believe
> there would be a lot more accidents involving pedestrians and
> bicyclists.  I
> know that my ears are almost always first to alert me that a
car is
> somewhere in the immediate vicinity.
>
> >Your vehicle doesn't have cold start pollution, fill-up
service station
>
> >pollution, noise pollution (one of my favorites), etc.
>
>
>
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> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> would be to charge them independently (2 chargers), or sequentially
> (charge one, then the other) or alternate between them (keep switching
> the charger back and forth between the two strings every 5 minutes or
> so).

on this last point, is there any advantage to "pump-and-pause" charging?  
(I recall reading about this sort of regime at some point in the past, but 
don't remember any details)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
> I guess the weirdness continues.

Uh-oh.  Maybe they've hired the Bastard Operator From Hell.
http://bofh.ntk.net/Bastard1.html (an oldie but a goodie, mainly
for computer geeks)

But more seriously, in my experience what *usually* happens when
there's huge mail queue that needs intervention is something like this:
  1) Something dies, and the mail builds up, and up, and up.
  2) The admin kills off the mail process to stop any more
      incoming mail while he fixes it.
  3) He moves all of the mail out of the queue and puts it
      in a "safe" place.
  4) He fixes whatever broke, and restarts the mail process.
  5) New emails will now go through, and so does the mail that
      was queuing up on other servers while he was fixing it.
  6) he re-injects all the mail that he had to put aside.
  6a) Maybe the volume of re-injected mail is too much, and
      the process repeats from step 1.
  6b) Maybe he re-injects the mail in sensible-sized chunks
      to avoid the step 6a scenario.
  7) He goes "damn I need some sleep/pizza" or "damn this is
      boring" and goes home.
  8) Next day he's busy with something else, then later he's
      got a few minutes spare to keep sending the old mail
      through.
  9) Sometimes, the admin says "well, email isn't guaranteed
      delivery, and there's just too much of a backlog to
      process - I'll have to delete it" and does so.

I don't think (9) has happened, but I'd say there's (been) a bit
of (2-8) going on.

Oh, the admin could be a "she" rather than a "he", lest I be
accused of only character-assassinating male mail admins. :-)

-- 
Lesley Walker
Unix Engineering, EDS New Zealand
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"[Hybrid electric vehicles] are self-sustaining,
as long as you keep putting gas in the tank."
     --- James R. Healey, USA Today
--- End Message ---

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