EV Digest 2491
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) converting shredder to electric?
by Andrew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Ranger EVs Still Around?
by "clayton99sc1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Used Car Dealer - Anybody Here One?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) RE: Ranger EVs Still Around?
by Jeremy Maus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Ranger EVs Still Around?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Rudman PFC charger efficiency vs others
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: evaa2002 text report
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: converting shredder to electric?
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Ranger EVs Still Around?
by "BORTEL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: converting shredder to electric?
by Peter A VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Ranger EVs Still Around?
by "Gary Graunke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: converting shredder to electric?
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: electric VW Pickup for sale
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Ranger EVs Still Around?
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Rudman PFC charger efficiency vs others
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Battery Charger for Nickel Zinc
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Ranger EVs Still Around?
by Jeremy Maus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: converting shredder to electric?
by Jeremy Maus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) multiple EV's (was Ranger EVs Still Around?)
by "Gary Graunke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Fw: 48v unit
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: 48v unit
by "Chad Peddy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All
I just finished the annual shredding of the leaves that occurs every
year here in tree town. The utensil of choice is a Sears 6 Hp shredder
with the ubiquitous Tecumseh 4 stroke engine. It worked but it was
noisy, hard to start and evil smelling.
I think the substitution of an electric motor would be a step in the
right direction as well as being a nice simple conversion project.
So what do I need for a motor?
I'm planning to plug it into the wall so I know it's going to be 120 V
AC.
What kind of horsepower do I need?
I'm thinking that a speed reduction might be good partially to let the
motor turn faster but mostly so that the speed reducer can absorb all
the shock and bending loads that your typical electric motor might not
care for.
Any other thoughts?
--
Andrew King
Ann Arbor Michigan
technology is the answer, what was the question?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Being heavily involved in both the S-10E and the Electric Ranger
programs I will make a few comments on this issue.
First of all, about batteries... The S-10E's and EV1's use 12V Panasonic
modules, not 6V. And secondly Panasonic never made an 8V module for the
Ranger. All Electric Rangers use batteries manufactured by East Penn
(which took over the Ford Motorcraft battery line). As far as
availability, the 12V Panasonics are hard to come by and those that are
available have a high price tag on them (~$10-12K per pack). The last
pack that I was involved in acquiring for an Electric Ranger was around
the same price (~$12K). There are refurbished packs that can be had for
a lower price but expect around a 15-20% drop in possible range.
Secondly, looking to Ford for help is not a probable solution,
especially where we are in Arizona. The local dealer has no clue about
the vehicle and even lies about what service it performs!
And even one worse problem about having an Electric Ranger in Arizona is
the heat. They hate the heat, which is why we sold our Electric Ranger
out of state. The S-10E is a far superior vehicle over the Ranger due
to its battery management/cooling and better placement and integration
of systems.
-Clayton
2001 Honda Insight
1997 GM S-10E
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Mason Convey
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 3:22 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: Re: Ranger EVs Still Around?
Can anyone speak to the question about batteries? Suppose
hypothetically that there was a Ranger available and the batteries
might be bad. What would it cost to get a new pack and where would
said individual look? ;) I suspect turning to Ford would be the MOST
expensive route - even neglecting the labor involved in changing the
modules. Last I checked, the Rangers were using the 8V Panasonic
modules, correct? Are these modules available elsewhere? I hear that
the 6V modules for the EV-1s and S-10Es are easy to come by for about
$5-6k, given that those programs are all but dead. Is it the same for
the Ranger modules, perhaps?
-~-~- mason s. convey -~-~-
website. http://www.1opossum.com
pager.voicemail. 602.422.7996. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
email. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
AOL Messenger. mtnbikeAZ
Yahoo! Messenger. mtnbike_az
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi List.
I better speak up here. I am working for Visteon - the spinoff from ford that
supplied the EV parts to Ford. Th!nk then took over EV Ranger support. Now ?
1. The motor is, in my opinion, very well integrated into the driveaxle. I
don't know why you would want to upgrade it. The controls were designed to
limit torque from the motor to avoid wheel spin. Top speed should be like 90mph
and power into it can be more than the inverter gives it now. - just what I have
heard don't know for sure.
Victor, the prototype TDM build rangers used siemens systems. But the
production version built at MSX has the, in my opinion, well engineered motor
axle assembly. Th e motor and gears are submerged in oil.
2. The inverter is not that powerfull, but I would say designed well. The
logic and gate drive circuits are on different sides of the board. This
inverter passed strict EMC/EMI requirements, not possible if the hi voltage and
logic are together.
It should be easy to put a more powerfull inverte in place of the the TIM. You
will lose the rev limiting and low battery modes.
3. The EV Rangers must have been sold. They ordered enough parts for 10 years
of repair. They are required to do this if they sell a vehicle.
4. The batteries are made at the East Penn. - 8V AGM type. Same case as the
EV1 12V modules but double the plates. The biggest improvement would be
regulators on the batteries. With regs battery life would double to quadruple.
Gary Graunke, if you would like to discuss design flaws with the Ford Inverters,
please talk to me directly. I would like any input to improve other inverters
we are designing.
Happy Holidays,
Jeremy Maus
Belleville, MI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.emidget.info
_____
__/__|__\__
=D-------/ - - \
`-'O'---'O'-'
-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Tikhonov
Jim Coate wrote:
>
> Mason Convey wrote:
> > A few questions regarding the production Ford Ranger EVs...
>
> Yeah, what he said... good questions. I'll add one more:
>
> 4. How "hackable" are they? As in if change battery pack capacity,
> voltage, etc. can a mere mortal alter the charger to match? Ditto for
> the controller, "fuel" gage, etc. Or if add a different charger does the
> controller then get confused?
>
> Or would one of Victor's AC drives bolt right in? :-)
All indications suggest that it will: AC motors for Ford Rangers
made by Ballard (type A312V67 MG) are just Siemens 1PV51xx series
motors, from which front flanges are removed and gear box bolted in.
The motors look identical up to and including cables locations
and fittings (and even casted loops for lifting are the same).
wonder how Ballard got away with copyright issues...
If I were a truck fan and had dead Ranger, I'd remove the
motor and install complete Siemens system. I believe, Gary
Graunke mentioned that there are inexcusable design flaws
in the Inverter - hi voltage components and PCB traces
are in close proximity with low voltage logic circuit.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeremy Maus wrote:
>
> Hi List.
>
> I better speak up here. I am working for Visteon - the spinoff from ford that
> supplied the EV parts to Ford. Th!nk then took over EV Ranger support. Now ?
>
> 1. The motor is, in my opinion, very well integrated into the driveaxle. I
> don't know why you would want to upgrade it. The controls were designed to
> limit torque from the motor to avoid wheel spin. Top speed should be like 90mph
> and power into it can be more than the inverter gives it now. - just what I have
> heard don't know for sure.
>
> Victor, the prototype TDM build rangers used siemens systems. But the
> production version built at MSX has the, in my opinion, well engineered motor
> axle assembly. The motor and gears are submerged in oil.
The reason was if one wants to use one of the systems I offer - the
motor
and inverter are sold as matching pair, and using it separately is not
supported, though technically it may work together.
>
> 2. The inverter is not that powerfull, but I would say designed well. The
> logic and gate drive circuits are on different sides of the board. This
> inverter passed strict EMC/EMI requirements, not possible if the hi voltage and
> logic are together.
As I mentioned - my mistake; that was S10 inverter problem, not Ranger.
> It should be easy to put a more powerfull inverte in place of the the TIM. You
> will lose the rev limiting and low battery modes.
>
> 3. The EV Rangers must have been sold. They ordered enough parts for 10 years
> of repair. They are required to do this if they sell a vehicle.
>
> 4. The batteries are made at the East Penn. - 8V AGM type. Same case as the
> EV1 12V modules but double the plates. The biggest improvement would be
> regulators on the batteries. With regs battery life would double to quadruple.
>
> Gary Graunke, if you would like to discuss design flaws with the Ford Inverters,
> please talk to me directly. I would like any input to improve other inverters
> we are designing.
Again, Gary's truck is Chevy S10 by US Electricar, not Ranger.
He can comment on this issue better.
Victor
> Happy Holidays,
>
> Jeremy Maus
> Belleville, MI
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.emidget.info
> _____
> __/__|__\__
> =D-------/ - - \
> `-'O'---'O'-'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Victor Tikhonov
>
> Jim Coate wrote:
> >
> > Mason Convey wrote:
> > > A few questions regarding the production Ford Ranger EVs...
> >
> > Yeah, what he said... good questions. I'll add one more:
> >
> > 4. How "hackable" are they? As in if change battery pack capacity,
> > voltage, etc. can a mere mortal alter the charger to match? Ditto for
> > the controller, "fuel" gage, etc. Or if add a different charger does the
> > controller then get confused?
> >
> > Or would one of Victor's AC drives bolt right in? :-)
>
> All indications suggest that it will: AC motors for Ford Rangers
> made by Ballard (type A312V67 MG) are just Siemens 1PV51xx series
> motors, from which front flanges are removed and gear box bolted in.
>
> The motors look identical up to and including cables locations
> and fittings (and even casted loops for lifting are the same).
> wonder how Ballard got away with copyright issues...
>
> If I were a truck fan and had dead Ranger, I'd remove the
> motor and install complete Siemens system. I believe, Gary
> Graunke mentioned that there are inexcusable design flaws
> in the Inverter - hi voltage components and PCB traces
> are in close proximity with low voltage logic circuit.
>
> Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anybody taken AC kWh readings upstream of their PFC chargers
and, say, a Zivan K2? I've run a kWh-meter upstream of a K&W
BC-20, Zivan K2, and a RUSSCO (beta unit). The 120V Zivan K2 was
the best of the bunch, the RUSSCO was next, and the K&W picked up
the rear. All 120V chargers. I was a little surprised that the
Zivan beat the RUSSCO. Now I'm wondering how the PFC charger
would fare in this experiment on a 96V pack (where I know the
power-factor correction is probably on the low end of its range,
but it's probably still a whole lot better than any of the three
chargers I've already tested). My guess is that the PFC may be
significantly better than any of the others (less waste heat on
the AC side).
Thanks,
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Reg Modlin with Daimler Chrysler is the Director of environmental energy and
planning seeking energy independence. He said that EV's with batteries are
deficient vehicles since they don't go as far. Plug-in series hybrids are
viable but cost is an issue. (All FCV's are series hybrids also). NEV's such
as Gem etc can be used to reduce ICE use. Fuel cells are a big challenge and
far into the future and DaimlerChrysler is not interested in EV's.
John Wallace with Ford said they explored EV's and didn't have success. ( I
observed the Think was an expensive AC drive which could have been made
cheaper although it was well liked in California during the Pivco Citi-Bee
program.) He said there was a cost issue with no profits. (They only hand
built 100). There is a limited market he said. Oil use doubled every 20
years and will peak in 2011 and decline after. (Where have I heard this
before?) Ford is targeting the better profit hybrid SUV's such as the Escape
SUV similar to the Explorer with low volume production in late 2003 to
fleets. (Not publicly available) Retail will be in 2004. Ford fuel cell
vehicle "Escape" battery will be used in the H2 fuel cell vehicle with
availability to fleets on a limited basis in 04' . He took a jab at EV's and
said we are not interested in the Sierra Club or Union of Concerned
Scientists, just the facts with regards to fuel cell vehicles.
So nobody said anything about how happy they were driving battery powered
EV's and not using gas but as it sound like there were few there doing that
I'm not surprised.
2004 ford employee to board " I have some very distressing news people in
alarming numbers have been removing the gas engines and replacing them with
electric motors and batteries instead of buying new cars they are even doing
this to our hybrids. " board "shocking news we must redesign all new cars
so this can't happen any more"
Nice job on reporting mark
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
dose the shredder seem underpowered ? 6 hp is not a lot for a shredder but
to get that much power for a 120 v plug is not going to be easy either. Are
you sure you can't run it off 240 ac . Plug it into the dryer outlet .
I've seen 5 hp electric motors for less that $100 with 3600 rpm (same as the
gas motor)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 6:31 PM
Subject: converting shredder to electric?
> Hello All
> I just finished the annual shredding of the leaves that occurs every
> year here in tree town. The utensil of choice is a Sears 6 Hp shredder
> with the ubiquitous Tecumseh 4 stroke engine. It worked but it was
> noisy, hard to start and evil smelling.
>
> I think the substitution of an electric motor would be a step in the
> right direction as well as being a nice simple conversion project.
> So what do I need for a motor?
>
> I'm planning to plug it into the wall so I know it's going to be 120 V
> AC.
>
> What kind of horsepower do I need?
>
> I'm thinking that a speed reduction might be good partially to let the
> motor turn faster but mostly so that the speed reducer can absorb all
> the shock and bending loads that your typical electric motor might not
> care for.
>
> Any other thoughts?
>
> --
> Andrew King
> Ann Arbor Michigan
> technology is the answer, what was the question?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeremy,
The motor/controller/charger in the TDM version of the Ford Ranger EV were
made by Northrop-Grumman (Westinghouse), not by Siemens. I was just at TDM
Thanksgiving week picking up the remaining Ranger EV parts from their
inventory. There are 7 of us across the US that own most of the units
produced by TDM for Ford.
Dan Bortel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Maus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 2:34 AM
Subject: RE: Ranger EVs Still Around?
> Hi List.
>
> I better speak up here. I am working for Visteon - the spinoff from ford
that
> supplied the EV parts to Ford. Th!nk then took over EV Ranger support.
Now ?
>
> 1. The motor is, in my opinion, very well integrated into the driveaxle.
I
> don't know why you would want to upgrade it. The controls were designed
to
> limit torque from the motor to avoid wheel spin. Top speed should be like
90mph
> and power into it can be more than the inverter gives it now. - just what
I have
> heard don't know for sure.
>
> Victor, the prototype TDM build rangers used siemens systems. But the
> production version built at MSX has the, in my opinion, well engineered
motor
> axle assembly. Th e motor and gears are submerged in oil.
>
> 2. The inverter is not that powerfull, but I would say designed well.
The
> logic and gate drive circuits are on different sides of the board. This
> inverter passed strict EMC/EMI requirements, not possible if the hi
voltage and
> logic are together.
>
> It should be easy to put a more powerfull inverte in place of the the TIM.
You
> will lose the rev limiting and low battery modes.
>
> 3. The EV Rangers must have been sold. They ordered enough parts for 10
years
> of repair. They are required to do this if they sell a vehicle.
>
> 4. The batteries are made at the East Penn. - 8V AGM type. Same case as
the
> EV1 12V modules but double the plates. The biggest improvement would be
> regulators on the batteries. With regs battery life would double to
quadruple.
>
> Gary Graunke, if you would like to discuss design flaws with the Ford
Inverters,
> please talk to me directly. I would like any input to improve other
inverters
> we are designing.
>
> Happy Holidays,
>
> Jeremy Maus
> Belleville, MI
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.emidget.info
> _____
> __/__|__\__
> =D-------/ - - \
> `-'O'---'O'-'
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Victor Tikhonov
>
> Jim Coate wrote:
> >
> > Mason Convey wrote:
> > > A few questions regarding the production Ford Ranger EVs...
> >
> > Yeah, what he said... good questions. I'll add one more:
> >
> > 4. How "hackable" are they? As in if change battery pack capacity,
> > voltage, etc. can a mere mortal alter the charger to match? Ditto for
> > the controller, "fuel" gage, etc. Or if add a different charger does the
> > controller then get confused?
> >
> > Or would one of Victor's AC drives bolt right in? :-)
>
> All indications suggest that it will: AC motors for Ford Rangers
> made by Ballard (type A312V67 MG) are just Siemens 1PV51xx series
> motors, from which front flanges are removed and gear box bolted in.
>
> The motors look identical up to and including cables locations
> and fittings (and even casted loops for lifting are the same).
> wonder how Ballard got away with copyright issues...
>
> If I were a truck fan and had dead Ranger, I'd remove the
> motor and install complete Siemens system. I believe, Gary
> Graunke mentioned that there are inexcusable design flaws
> in the Inverter - hi voltage components and PCB traces
> are in close proximity with low voltage logic circuit.
>
> Victor
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 2002-12-18 at 19:31, Andrew wrote:
> Hello All
> I just finished the annual shredding of the leaves that occurs every
> year here in tree town. The utensil of choice is a Sears 6 Hp shredder
> with the ubiquitous Tecumseh 4 stroke engine. It worked but it was
> noisy, hard to start and evil smelling.
>
> I think the substitution of an electric motor would be a step in the
> right direction as well as being a nice simple conversion project.
> So what do I need for a motor?
>
> I'm planning to plug it into the wall so I know it's going to be 120 V
> AC.
>
> What kind of horsepower do I need?
>
That's easy. All you can pull from a normal 120V outlet is 15 amps
(actually something like 12 amps continuously). That works out to be
about a 2hp motor which is roughly equivalent to a 5-6hp ICE.
> I'm thinking that a speed reduction might be good partially to let the
> motor turn faster but mostly so that the speed reducer can absorb all
> the shock and bending loads that your typical electric motor might not
> care for.
>
Kind of depends on the RPM rating of the motor you find. My guess is that
it will be around 3450 RPM (assuming an induction motor) which is roughly
the same speed your ICE is spinning at so you really wouldn't want any
extra speed reduction.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor was a bit confused because I started out trying to buy an Ford Ranger
EV in March 2000. Just after I ordered it, the BPA here in Portland took
delivery of a truck just like I ordered from the one of 50 dealers here in
Beaverton, OR, and brought it to the OEVA meeting. This was my first OEVA
meeting, and I was thrilled to see the truck that I had ordered. However,
Ford had already decided not to sell them any more (just lease them--and I
never lease vehicles). The local dealer support was abysmal, taking over a
month to return phone calls. However, Ford AFV was very responsive and
helpful, and probably the only reason I ever got any response from the local
guys, who took 6 months to tell me I could not buy the truck. They also
claimed that I had not made a $2000 deposit on the truck until I faxed them
a copy of the cashed check from my bank. So I'm really glad not to have to
depend on them for service!
I then picked up a '94 US Electricar S10 from ebay with the GM Hughes
Dolphin AC drive. It soon developed an isolation fault (which took me a
while to figure out, making contacts with others and obtaining the
diagnostic program).
I replaced 6 dead batteries, and got some good miles in. Last winter, when
it was not working, I traced the entire motor controller PC board. I
doubtless have quite a few errors in my netlist, but it is still very
helpful. Faced with two engineers armed with a trusty opto-isolated Fluke
scopemeter, it started working, thwarting our efforts to find out what was
going wrong.
I drove it all summer, until it once again began having isolation faults.
It's readily apparent when you open the box that the plus end of the 405VDC
is very close to the case (and logic) ground. The PC board tolerances also
seem to be for low voltage, even in the high voltage section. This will
eventually fry the board. I plan to remove the high voltage section in the
corner and put it on a daugther board with proper tolerances.
There may be other problems, and I still haven't traced down the isolation
fault yet. However, I doubt that I will be running it until I get the PC
board problem addressed to avoid frying the board.
In the meantime, I'm converting a 2000 Honda Insight with good components.
However, I certainly miss having a pickup truck, and, if I can be convinced
that the AC drive and inverter will be reliable (especially if I use Rich's
PFC50 instead of the 3KW charger in the inverter box), I'll probably upgrade
the pack to Evercell MB50 NiZn batteries to replace the 42AH Hawkers, adding
some cooling, of course. This will be 600 lbs lighter (currently 1710 lbs in
52 Hawkers), and should easily get 100 miles range!
As far as I know, the EV Rangers have had a good record of reliability. You
might check with Geoff Shepherd, who bought his from Clayton. Geoff has even
been getting 70 mi range, and I believe his only major wish is for more
advanced batteries.
In summary, as far as I know the Ford engineering is good. Some of the
dealers are very supportive of the EV program, while others, like the one
near me, could care less for low-volume special orders (the dealership was
sold since Ford picked it, so that may be part of the problem). Their AFV
program has some good folks. However, batteries seem to the problem in both
the EV Ranger and the now abandoned Think program as well.
Finally, if this ever happens again, find a dealer (there are some really
good ones in CA) that is committed to the EV program.
Gary
=============================================
>
> Gary Graunke, if you would like to discuss design flaws with the Ford
Inverters,
> please talk to me directly. I would like any input to improve other
inverters
> we are designing.
Again, Gary's truck is Chevy S10 by US Electricar, not Ranger.
He can comment on this issue better.
Victor
> Happy Holidays,
>
> Jeremy Maus
> Belleville, MI
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.emidget.info
> _____
> __/__|__\__
> =D-------/ - - \
> `-'O'---'O'-'
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 2002-12-18 at 19:31, Andrew wrote:
Hello All
I just finished the annual shredding of the leaves that occurs every
year here in tree town. The utensil of choice is a Sears 6 Hp shredder
with the ubiquitous Tecumseh 4 stroke engine. It worked but it was
noisy, hard to start and evil smelling.
I think the substitution of an electric motor would be a step in the
right direction as well as being a nice simple conversion project.
So what do I need for a motor?
I'm planning to plug it into the wall so I know it's going to be 120 V
AC.
What kind of horsepower do I need?
I would bet a motor from a heavy duty table saw among many others would work
fine.
Take a look at motors available at Grainger.
Use a 20A circuit and a large gauge extension cord.
Even if it doesn't make quite the power of the ICE, it will just take a
little longer to accomplish the task.
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: electric VW Pickup for sale
> 1sclunn wrote:
> >the album pic is a before? I think a slightly used conversion which has
been
> >tested would be worth more that what you have into it.
>
> Right after it came back from paint.
>
> The conversion was more or less done, that is I had already assembled
> it less the 120v wiring (but had added provisions for it) to prove
> that everything fit. After it was painted, I installed the wheels and
> tyres, and steering wheel to move it around, then shot those photos.
> After that I began to put the Pickup back together with plenty of new
> parts and no paint on trim or rubber. You see the Rabbit GTI front
> air dam in the photos, but not yet the 4 black fender flairs that
> complete the package now (not really flairs, about 1/4 inch). The
> whole GTI kit is brand new, as are the grill and tail lights (the
> tail lights check, the grill warps over 20 years, and why try to make
> mismatched old GTI parts look good when they are available new).
So not only are you selling this for less that what the EV parts cost , you
also have bought all the little odds and ends that people wish were new on
there old cars.
> Peter wrote:
> >To who? The problem with selling a conversion is that most folks expect
> >to spend less on a conversion than the parts cost.
supply and demand . To many ev's and not enough buyers . In my dreams EV
builders are payed the same ( even more! ) than car machanics . The parts
are payed for and the builders have a waiting list. People feel so good
about them that they can't stop talking about them. Out lets are everwhere.
> >Most conversions are not up to the "drive and forget" stage and need
> >tinkering. Most folks willing to tinker will either build their own or
> >look for something cheap that they can afford.
"drive and forget" Who wants to drive and forget somthing your having so
much fun with .. The tinkering is part of the fun . If your thinking of
doing a conversion but can get your hands on somthing like this , what can I
say .
> Most custom or even stock restoration vehicles sell for somewhat less
> than the cost of the job. Its a fact of life, but true because people
> like me enjoy the work as a hobby. We sell to try our hand at another
> vehicle. I'm not in a great hurry to start another vehicle, I will do
> some work on the place inside, outside, and in the garage. But I
> *know* already I will be building another car - its fun.
Thats my problem to . I like to build them but after the first ride I'm
ready to start another . Another point about buying a used EV is that you
can put that energy that would have gone into putting the motor in and bat
boxes ect into all the little odds and end that never get done on some
(mine)
>
> As far as "drive and forget", I hope my Pickup proves to be as close
> as it comes. There is always room for an owners personal touches, but
> I think its pretty basic maintenance. Not of the ICE type of course;
> No stinky oil - just distilled water. No fuel filters, just check the
> motor brushes once and awhile. No tune-ups, just check the batteries
> and connections out. Of course, I can't help the regular vehicle
> part, things like brake inspections or washing it will be like any
> other vehicle. But I don't expect to worry about the drivetrain. My
> Buggy drivetrain hasn't needed any work.
this is what I was saying befor . an EV with 50k is not a bad thing (my work
truck) as you know stuff is lined up ect . Of course if there is funny
noised ect then there are problems . Ev's and gas cars are not the same .
Like a solar pannel is not like a gas gen . Take a gas gen that's been
running 5 hours a day for 5 years and compare it to an array of solar
pannels that have been in the sun for 5 years . Then gas gen is probable
not working and worthless the solar pannels have seen a small part of there
life gone. who would sell the 5k arrray for $500 after 5 years.
You never told me what you would charge to do a conversion like the one
your selling . If I brought you the pickup and said get the parts and do it
.
Steve Clunn
> Neon
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
funny that lots of people with one EV soon have two . We must let our gas
burnning friends in on what there missing .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Graunke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 9:05 PM
Subject: RE: Ranger EVs Still Around?
> Victor was a bit confused because I started out trying to buy an Ford
Ranger
> EV in March 2000. Just after I ordered it, the BPA here in Portland took
> delivery of a truck just like I ordered from the one of 50 dealers here in
> Beaverton, OR, and brought it to the OEVA meeting. This was my first OEVA
> meeting, and I was thrilled to see the truck that I had ordered. However,
> Ford had already decided not to sell them any more (just lease them--and I
> never lease vehicles). The local dealer support was abysmal, taking over a
> month to return phone calls. However, Ford AFV was very responsive and
> helpful, and probably the only reason I ever got any response from the
local
> guys, who took 6 months to tell me I could not buy the truck. They also
> claimed that I had not made a $2000 deposit on the truck until I faxed
them
> a copy of the cashed check from my bank. So I'm really glad not to have to
> depend on them for service!
>
> I then picked up a '94 US Electricar S10 from ebay with the GM Hughes
> Dolphin AC drive. It soon developed an isolation fault (which took me a
> while to figure out, making contacts with others and obtaining the
> diagnostic program).
> I replaced 6 dead batteries, and got some good miles in. Last winter, when
> it was not working, I traced the entire motor controller PC board. I
> doubtless have quite a few errors in my netlist, but it is still very
> helpful. Faced with two engineers armed with a trusty opto-isolated Fluke
> scopemeter, it started working, thwarting our efforts to find out what was
> going wrong.
> I drove it all summer, until it once again began having isolation faults.
>
> It's readily apparent when you open the box that the plus end of the
405VDC
> is very close to the case (and logic) ground. The PC board tolerances also
> seem to be for low voltage, even in the high voltage section. This will
> eventually fry the board. I plan to remove the high voltage section in the
> corner and put it on a daugther board with proper tolerances.
>
> There may be other problems, and I still haven't traced down the isolation
> fault yet. However, I doubt that I will be running it until I get the PC
> board problem addressed to avoid frying the board.
>
> In the meantime, I'm converting a 2000 Honda Insight with good components.
> However, I certainly miss having a pickup truck, and, if I can be
convinced
> that the AC drive and inverter will be reliable (especially if I use
Rich's
> PFC50 instead of the 3KW charger in the inverter box), I'll probably
upgrade
> the pack to Evercell MB50 NiZn batteries to replace the 42AH Hawkers,
adding
> some cooling, of course. This will be 600 lbs lighter (currently 1710 lbs
in
> 52 Hawkers), and should easily get 100 miles range!
>
> As far as I know, the EV Rangers have had a good record of reliability.
You
> might check with Geoff Shepherd, who bought his from Clayton. Geoff has
even
> been getting 70 mi range, and I believe his only major wish is for more
> advanced batteries.
>
> In summary, as far as I know the Ford engineering is good. Some of the
> dealers are very supportive of the EV program, while others, like the one
> near me, could care less for low-volume special orders (the dealership was
> sold since Ford picked it, so that may be part of the problem). Their AFV
> program has some good folks. However, batteries seem to the problem in
both
> the EV Ranger and the now abandoned Think program as well.
> Finally, if this ever happens again, find a dealer (there are some really
> good ones in CA) that is committed to the EV program.
>
> Gary
>
> =============================================
> >
> > Gary Graunke, if you would like to discuss design flaws with the Ford
> Inverters,
> > please talk to me directly. I would like any input to improve other
> inverters
> > we are designing.
>
> Again, Gary's truck is Chevy S10 by US Electricar, not Ranger.
> He can comment on this issue better.
>
> Victor
>
> > Happy Holidays,
> >
> > Jeremy Maus
> > Belleville, MI
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://www.emidget.info
> > _____
> > __/__|__\__
> > =D-------/ - - \
> > `-'O'---'O'-'
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes.
Talk to Bob Wheeler SFPEAA. He has most of the data we
recorded when we measured my chargers.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gordon Niessen wrote:
> The BatMods look interesting, but are limited to 48V.
No; they come in many input voltages. A 150v nominal input works from
100-200v, and would cover yoru 160v pack.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Victor. It's too bad Gary couldn't have purchased that EV Ranger. :)
-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Tikhonov
>> Gary Graunke, if you would like to discuss design flaws with the Ford
Inverters,
>> please talk to me directly. I would like any input to improve other
inverters
>> we are designing.
>Again, Gary's truck is Chevy S10 by US Electricar, not Ranger.
>He can comment on this issue better.
=========================================================
Yep, Dan is correct. My Mistake.
-----Original Message-----
From: BORTEL
Jeremy,
The motor/controller/charger in the TDM version of the Ford Ranger EV were
made by Northrop-Grumman (Westinghouse), not by Siemens. I was just at TDM
Thanksgiving week picking up the remaining Ranger EV parts from their
inventory. There are 7 of us across the US that own most of the units
produced by TDM for Ford.
Dan Bortel
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can buy a leaf shredder from Harbor Freight that is already electric(110V).
But it is around 1HP. It may be cheaper and safer to buy one designed for
electric.
My 2 watts.
Jeremy Maus
Belleville, MI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.emidget.info
_____
__/__|__\__
=D-------/ - - \
`-'O'---'O'-'
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Roy LeMeur
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 12:04 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: converting shredder to electric?
On Wed, 2002-12-18 at 19:31, Andrew wrote:
>Hello All
>I just finished the annual shredding of the leaves that occurs every
>year here in tree town. The utensil of choice is a Sears 6 Hp shredder
>with the ubiquitous Tecumseh 4 stroke engine. It worked but it was
>noisy, hard to start and evil smelling.
>
>I think the substitution of an electric motor would be a step in the
>right direction as well as being a nice simple conversion project.
>So what do I need for a motor?
>
>I'm planning to plug it into the wall so I know it's going to be 120 V
>AC.
>
>What kind of horsepower do I need?
I would bet a motor from a heavy duty table saw among many others would work
fine.
Take a look at motors available at Grainger.
Use a 20A circuit and a large gauge extension cord.
Even if it doesn't make quite the power of the ICE, it will just take a
little longer to accomplish the task.
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Despite the difficulties of having to do more than a bit of work to have an
EV (especially outside CA), even us non-car people can really enjoy that EV
grin when we are on the road. I'm convinced that many folks would really
like them if they ever tried a halfway decent EV.
I gave away my remaining aging ICE vehicles to less fortunate local folks in
need of transporation, and now have a family fleet of a Honda Insight (fine
hybrid that it was, it will be a great EV, too!), a Prius, a US Electricar
S10 pickup EV, and a hybrid Civic.
It seems that we, who better things to do, must take matters into our own
hands. I've been waiting for a fuel cell vehicle since some folks from GM
visited the high school where I was a student with their fuel cell, saying
fuel cell vehicles would be coming along in the not too distant future--in
1966!
Gary
=====================
1sclunn wrote:
funny that lots of people with one EV soon have two . We must let our gas
burnning friends in on what there missing .
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you would need to get 4 units to get enough power to run a
motorcycle. Seems it might put a cycle down the road over a hundred miles
with four units. Couldn't read their specs. The website has the specs. I
don't like the part where they feel they need to refuel for you. Sounds
like a way to keep control. I don't see why a small refueling station
couldn't be had. Lawrence Rhodes.........Maybe they don't see enough profit
in just selling the batteries.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wang Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 11:10 AM
Subject: RE: 48v unit
> Dear Rhodes,
>
> Attached pls find the product specs of our current offer, and the
> introduction of our technology. our zinc air fuel cells approach
mechanical
> (swap) refueling method instead of electrically recharge, (pls refer to
> attached PPT file and our website www.powerzinc.com for business model ),
> due to we are now upgrading the tooling for DQFC-24-3200, we are able to
> offer DQFC-24-1800 at this moment.
>
> Thanks and pls let me know if you have further question.
>
> Best regards, Bill Wang
> Powerzinc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: 2002?12?10? 11:51
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: 48v unit
>
> I would like to purchace your 48v unit. Is it available and what is the
> charging procedure. Lawrence Rhodes..... I would like to set a record for
> range on a motorcycle using a special fairing. How many amps continous
will
> the unit put out at 48v. Thank you. Lawrence Rhodes.....
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Re-looking at the web site (http://www.powerzinc.com/en/index-2-c1.html) I
noticed VCR's on a short list of Electronics that will benefit from the
"new" technology. I though VCR's are being fazed out, not in need of a new
battery.
I know, just poking fun at the less fortunate; the ICE drivers.
Chad
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 10:11 PM
Subject: Fw: 48v unit
> I think you would need to get 4 units to get enough power to run a
> motorcycle. Seems it might put a cycle down the road over a hundred miles
> with four units. Couldn't read their specs. The website has the specs.
I
> don't like the part where they feel they need to refuel for you. Sounds
> like a way to keep control. I don't see why a small refueling station
> couldn't be had. Lawrence Rhodes.........Maybe they don't see enough
profit
> in just selling the batteries.......
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wang Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 11:10 AM
> Subject: RE: 48v unit
>
>
> > Dear Rhodes,
> >
> > Attached pls find the product specs of our current offer, and the
> > introduction of our technology. our zinc air fuel cells approach
> mechanical
> > (swap) refueling method instead of electrically recharge, (pls refer to
> > attached PPT file and our website www.powerzinc.com for business
model ),
> > due to we are now upgrading the tooling for DQFC-24-3200, we are able to
> > offer DQFC-24-1800 at this moment.
> >
> > Thanks and pls let me know if you have further question.
> >
> > Best regards, Bill Wang
> > Powerzinc
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: 2002?12?10? 11:51
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: 48v unit
> >
> > I would like to purchace your 48v unit. Is it available and what is the
> > charging procedure. Lawrence Rhodes..... I would like to set a record
for
> > range on a motorcycle using a special fairing. How many amps continous
> will
> > the unit put out at 48v. Thank you. Lawrence Rhodes.....
> >
>
--- End Message ---
