EV Digest 2490
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Battery Charger for Nickel Zinc
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Inquiry about Buck enhancer
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) RE: Inquiry about Buck enhancer
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Charging old UPS type batts.
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Battery Charger for Nickel Zinc
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Battery Charger for Nickel Zinc
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: GhiaMonster Electrical Subsystem...
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Update on Tilley's Delorian
by Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Prius hacking. Alec Brooks AC Propulsion
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Ranger EVs Still Around?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Ranger EVs Still Around?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Ranger EVs Still Around?
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Update on Tilley's Delorian
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Ranger EVs Still Around?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Ranger EVs Still Around?
by Mason Convey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Ranger EVs Still Around?
by Mason Convey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) US electricar dual pot box link
by Randy Holmquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Update on Tilley's Delorian
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Update on Tilley's Delorian
by "Crabb, David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: GhiaMonster Electrical Subsystem...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: electric VW Pickup for sale
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Battery Charger for Nickel Zinc
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Used Car Dealer - Anybody Here One?
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: GhiaMonster Electrical Subsystem...
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Ranger EVs Still Around?
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Best Tires for EV?
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
VanDerWal, Peter MSgt wrote:
>
> >I am planning on a EV conversion of a Motorcycle and leaning toward a 160V
> >system using Evercel Nickel Zinc batteries, due to size and weight. But I
> >am wondering if anyone has any recommendations on a charger that would suit
>
> >the 10Ah cells that would fit this application.
> >
> >Would love to have it an onboard charger, but given the voltage, I would
> >expect most chargers to run off of 230V AC (which prevents easy plugin in
> >many places). But if the added cost of a 120V system is reasonable, I
> >would be interested.
> >
> >Any thoughts?
>
> Sounds like a job for Rich Rudman's PFC charger.
> It will charge a 160V pack from either 120V or 240V, whatever you find
> available. Actually it's supposed to work on any input voltage from 60V to
> 250V AC and can output anything from 12V to 360V.
> It's a relatively small charger, from their website: "The PFC20 weighs 20
> pounds and resides in a box that is 13 x 9 x 5 inches."
> http://www.manzanitamicro.com/chargers2.htm
>
> In fact I believe the only person on the list using Nickel Zinc uses a
> PFC-20 (or is it a PFC-50?)
Umm 3 folks are doing Evercells with PFC??
Sheer has 2 or 3 BETA PFC20s.
Leo, has a Ummm confused PFC20 BETA
And Ummm a client of mine that wants to stay un named doing LOTS of
Evercells with a PFC50.
And Joe and I are doing terminal Evercell cycle testing with old #1
PFC20 Beta. The Data is in the Download area on Manzanitamicro.com
The Chargers are being tuned to do 12 to 450 output volts nowdays. I
have NOT tested them off of DC but that's coming. PFC50s really should
not be run hard at under 48 volts.... I have not done much abuse testing
Bucking that far down and at full amps. 160 VDC will be a real nice spot
for the PFC chargers. A Buck enhancer from 240 VAC will get you 10 more
amps from the same line feed. Recomended at this voltage.
Yep I can help you.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich,
What is involved to upgrade an existing PFC-20 to Buck, for the 240VAC
enhancement?
-Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 10:44 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Battery Charger for Nickel Zinc
...
The Chargers are being tuned to do 12 to 450 output volts nowdays. I
have NOT tested them off of DC but that's coming. PFC50s really should
not be run hard at under 48 volts.... I have not done much abuse testing
Bucking that far down and at full amps. 160 VDC will be a real nice spot
for the PFC chargers. A Buck enhancer from 240 VAC will get you 10 more
amps from the same line feed. Recomended at this voltage.
Yep I can help you.
--
Rich Rudman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry, hit Send before correcting the address. Ment to go directly to Rich.
Please disregard.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Thorpe
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 10:53 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Inquiry about Buck enhancer
Rich,
What is involved to upgrade an existing PFC-20 to Buck, for the 240VAC
enhancement?
-Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 10:44 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Battery Charger for Nickel Zinc
...
The Chargers are being tuned to do 12 to 450 output volts nowdays. I
have NOT tested them off of DC but that's coming. PFC50s really should
not be run hard at under 48 volts.... I have not done much abuse testing
Bucking that far down and at full amps. 160 VDC will be a real nice spot
for the PFC chargers. A Buck enhancer from 240 VAC will get you 10 more
amps from the same line feed. Recomended at this voltage.
Yep I can help you.
--
Rich Rudman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
We just replaced the batts in our main office UPS. They did not "NEED" to
be replaced but we just decided to do it now. So I inherited the old pak.
There are 4 heavy duty 12v (I BELIEVE 19 ah, but I have to look) sealed
batts.
I'd like to use them to make a little electric scooter or go cart like
thingy. Can anyone tell me a good (and not too awfully expensive) charger
to both:
1) keep these float charged until I get around to building the cart
2) charge them up after running the scooter/go cart.
TIA!
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
Compatible: Gracefully accepts erroneous data from any source.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gordon Niessen wrote:
>
> Yes, I had looked at that charger earlier. But while it looks very capable
> of being de-tuned to the smaller amp requirements, it is still too larger
> for on-board use on a Motorcycle. Though it is interesting that on
> EVParts.com the shipping weight is only 15.5 lbs, while the charger is
> listed at 20 lbs.
>
> And the price is about 3 times what I would like to spend. If I stick to
> 48V, then I am looking at $200+ for a charger.
>
> At 09:40 AM 12/17/2002, you wrote:
> > >I am planning on a EV conversion of a Motorcycle and leaning toward a 160V
> > >system using Evercel Nickel Zinc batteries, due to size and weight. But I
> > >am wondering if anyone has any recommendations on a charger that would suit
> >
> > >the 10Ah cells that would fit this application.
> > >
> > >Would love to have it an onboard charger, but given the voltage, I would
> > >expect most chargers to run off of 230V AC (which prevents easy plugin in
> > >many places). But if the added cost of a 120V system is reasonable, I
> > >would be interested.
> > >
> > >Any thoughts?
> >
> >Sounds like a job for Rich Rudman's PFC charger.
> >It will charge a 160V pack from either 120V or 240V, whatever you find
> >available. Actually it's supposed to work on any input voltage from 60V to
> >250V AC and can output anything from 12V to 360V.
> >It's a relatively small charger, from their website: "The PFC20 weighs 20
> >pounds and resides in a box that is 13 x 9 x 5 inches."
> >http://www.manzanitamicro.com/chargers2.htm
> >
> >In fact I believe the only person on the list using Nickel Zinc uses a
> >PFC-20 (or is it a PFC-50?)
Yup the steel case was #20. The Alum one is not.
48 volts, yup there are cheaper solutions. At 160 VDC, there are a LOT
fewer...
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric Penne wrote:
>
> A leather covered padded PFC 20/50 for use as a seat. Just check
> option NoChance001 when ordering your charger.
>
> Eric
>
For a grand or two I can have just about any cover made for it, and
powder coated to your wishes.....
I bet the Steel cases would hold up just fine....They probably make good
Jack stands...
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: GhiaMonster Electrical Subsystem...
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:36:03 -0800 (PST)
......
I think the only sepex NEDRA racer
has been a Dodge TEV? It did win its class :) .
......
That would be me! Most OEMs are AC and most conversions are series. There
are a few sepex conversions, but the NEDRA web site doesn't say which type
each record holder is or who has raced and lost. The TEVan was definitely
not built for speed, just as a utility vehicle. My record for the quarter
mile was 27.525 seconds at 50.44 mph. Still, I don't usually hold up
traffic. It just doesn't move out that fast. Made me laugh at the recent
discussion where some folks thought a 0 to 60 time of 16 seconds was too
slow. ;) I think my 0 to 30 time is fairly decent, but haven't measured
it.
Dave Davidson
Laurel, Maryland (member EVA/DC)
1993 Dodge TEVan
NEDRA SP/C record holder
_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can only speculate whether Rod has split a gut laughing that so
many of you are treating his post as if he were serious, or if he is
shaking his head in disbelief/disgust. ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
PS: Rod, it was rich, even if not everyone appreciated the humour.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It might be reasonably argued that the most cost effective way to meet some
range target is to improve vehicle efficiency rather than put in a larger or
more expensive battery pack. That could be an opening for future attacks on
the mandate from Automakers on the basis of preemption of the Federal fuel
economy laws.
The sodium nickel chloride battery, also known as the ZEBRA battery, is an
advanced technology that is now coming to market. With 120 Wh/kg, the
specific energy is four times that of lead acid. The price in low volume is
$500 per kwh. For high volume, the price will be $220 per kWh. Life is at
least 1000 cycles and calendar life is long too.
We are looking into retrofitting a GM S10 EV with two ZEBRA packs and an AC
Propulsion drivetrain. Empty weight will be reduced several hundred pounds
and the range should be 200 miles.
ZEBRA Battery
In production in Switzerland
120 Wh/kg for pack (4x lead acid)
1000 cylces at nameplate rating
No calendar life issues
Pricing
Low vol. $500/kWh
High vol. $200/kWh
(24kWh pack: $5280)
To demonstrate the type of EV that could be made with the ZEBRA battery, we
have developed a concept based on the Prius. The Prius includes most of what
you need to make a basic EV - electric drivetrain, electric power steering,
electric power brakes, 4 door lightweight body, low rolling resistance
tires, all for a retail price of $20,000. A 24-kWh ZEBRA battery pack will
just fit under the rear seat. Range should be 140 miles.
Using the existing Prius drive motor, it would be a low power EV suited for
urban travel, but would be freeway capable. (A minor modification to the
Prius transmission would eliminate the 41mph limit on electric power alone.)
The battery should last at least 10 years and 100,000 miles.
Prius EV Concept Vehicle
Parts added:
25 kWh ZEBRA battery pack
Charger and inlet
Parts removed:
Hybrid battery pack
Engine
Radiator
Ring gear
Fuel tank
Engine control unit
Exhaust aftertreatment system
Range: 140 miles
Weight: same as standard Prius
Cost to make: same as standard Prius (+/- 10%)
The cost picture looks pretty good for this vehicle. In low volume as a
conversion of the standard Prius, the main parts costs would be the Prius -
$20,000, the battery pack - $12,000, and the charger -- $1500, or a total of
$33,500. But there would be quite a few leftover parts which might have some
residual value: These include the NiMh hybrid battery pack, the IC engine,
the fuel injection system and engine control computer, the exhaust
aftertreatment system, the fuel tank and evaporative emissions hardware, and
the radiator.
The costs look even better if this vehicle were produced in higher volume by
Toyota as a ZEV in the first place. Then all costs for all those extra parts
would not need to be incurred in the first place, and the battery cost would
be down to $5300 (This is from the manufacturer of the ZEBRA battery). The
manufactured cost would be very close to that of the standard hybrid Prius,
possibly lower. The vehicle weight would be about the same as the standard
Prius too.
Lithium Ion batteries hold much promise for vehicle application. The best
lithium ion batteries pack 40 percent more energy per kilogram than the
ZEBRA battery, and five times as much as lead acid. All of the action in
lithium ion batteries has been for consumer applications - laptops, cell
phones, and hand held computers. There is intense competition in this
market; performance keeps going up and prices keep coming down.
We recently purchased a few kWh worth of small Lithium Ion cells. The price
was $490/kWh. By contrast, our price from Panasonic for lead acid batteries
has been $500 per kWh. In very high volume these lithium batteries sell for
only $257/kWh. We are exploring the possibility and practicality of using
these 2-Amp-hour cells in an EV. A large number of cells would be required
but the costs might be acceptable.
We've looked at putting a pack of these lithium ion cells into the Prius EV
described above. The energy on board would be about 34 kWh and the vehicle
weight would be on about the same as the stock Prius. Range would be between
160 and 200 miles.
Below is a comparison of this vehicle to the Ford Focus FCV. They are both
compact four door sedans and have essentially the same driving range. But
the Prius weighs 700 pounds less than the Focus FCV. The Prius EV power
system takes up less volume than the Focus's fuel cell power system,
resulting in more interior room and a much bigger trunk. If the Focus was
refueled with hydrogen produced with electricity, it would take 240 kWh to
produce the 4kg of hydrogen it needs to refuel. The Lithium Prius EV would
need only 38 kWh - for the same driving range.
Focus FCV Prius Lith-Ion Concept EV
Range 200 miles 160-200 miles
Energy Storage 4 Kg Hydrogen 34 kWh Lith-Ion
Curb Weight 3528 lbs. 2800 lbs.
Electrical Energy To Refuel 240 kWh 40 kWh
If the Prius EV were loaded down with more lithium batteries to equal the
weight of the Focus FCV, it would have 400 miles range.
Another good example is a comparison of the Honda EV plus and Honda FCX,
which is based on the EV plus. The EVplus weighed in at 3590 pounds,
including 950 pounds of nickel metal hydride batteries. The FCX comes in
higher at 3837 pounds. The FCX EPA range is 170 miles, about twice that of
the EVplus. But consider what would happen if the EVplus were fitted out
with a sufficient amount 2003-technology lithium ion batteries to bring its
weight up to that of the FCX. That lithium ion pack would deliver 75 percent
more electrical energy than is produced by the fuel cell system in the FCX!
How about a battery electric Toyota Highlander? Even with many special
lightweight body components, the FCHV weighs in at 4100 pounds, 616 pounds
more than a 4 cylinder Highlander. An all electric 4100-lb Highlander
employing lithium Ion batteries would have range of more than 300 miles.
Finally, here is the GM Hy-wire - the most expensive concept car GM has ever
built at $10 million. This 4 door weighs in at 4180 pounds - about as much
as a 7 passenger minivan. Those three hydrogen tanks in the 11-inch-thick
skateboard chassis hold 2 kg of hydrogen. The range is only 60 miles. With
higher pressure 10,000 psi tanks, the range would increase to only 100
miles.
Weight 4180 lbs.
Hydrogen storage 2 kg @ 5000 psi
3.36 kg@ 10,000 psi
Range 60 miles (5000 psi)
100 miles (10,000 psi)
Below is a 4 door EV we built at AC propulsion. It has a range of 90 miles
and weighs 3110 pounds - more than 1000 pounds less than the Hy-wire. If it
had a big lithium ion pack that brought the vehicle weight up to 3700
pounds, still 480 pounds less than Hy-wire, it would have a range of 400
miles.
In summary, these are the major points to keep in mind:
Battery electric vehicles based on the same platform as fuel cell vehicles
can have greater range than the fuel cell version if latest battery
technology is employed.
Making hydrogen with electricity is very inefficient. Compared with battery
electric vehicles, electricity consumption will be from 3 to 6 times higher
per mile.
When hydrogen is produced from natural gas, fuel cell vehicles can, at best,
only match the fuel economy of a comparable natural gas hybrid vehicle, and
will have less than half the driving range for given tank volume and
pressure.
With these challenges with fuel cell vehicles, why are automakers putting so
much emphasis on them and hoping that battery electric vehicles will go
away? I have a couple of thoughts on why this might be so. First is that
decision makers in the auto companies and the government may have never been
through the numbers in the way I have shown.
Second, is that automakers seem more comfortable with R and D and
demonstration programs, but really don't like putting advanced technology
vehicles out on the market. Working on fuel cell vehicles gives automakers
an excuse to ask for relief on battery electric vehicles - which can be
brought to market now at very little cost penalty. But when Toyota - the
company that sells the Prius for $20,000 and makes a profit - says that only
after a great deal of effort will fuel cell vehicles come down to 2 to 3
times the cost of conventional vehicles, you can see the writing on the wall
that we'll be back here again in ten years hearing all about why fuel cell
vehicles can't be produced for general use.
With the new proposed regulations, I fear that CARB is now poised to snatch
defeat from the jaws of victory. Really good battery electric ZEVs are now
possible; now is not the time to give up on them. Do not bet the farm that
fuel cell vehicles are just around the corner. The ZEV mandate should not
single out fuel cell vehicles for extra large credits and should not provide
credit for fuel cell infrastructure. Fuel cell and battery ZEVs should be on
equal footing. Let fuel cell vehicles sink or swim based on their merits,
and please don't structure the revised mandate in a way that would in
essence abandon the only kind of true ZEVs that have already made it to end
users.
END STORY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mason Convey wrote:
A few questions regarding the production Ford Ranger EVs...
Yeah, what he said... good questions. I'll add one more:
4. How "hackable" are they? As in if change battery pack capacity,
voltage, etc. can a mere mortal alter the charger to match? Ditto for
the controller, "fuel" gage, etc. Or if add a different charger does the
controller then get confused?
Or would one of Victor's AC drives bolt right in? :-)
1. Is there still an interest in them? Are they worth anything, or
have they been known for major problems recently? I've lost touch with
the Ranger scene in the last year or two.
2. Can batteries still be acquired? If so, for how much? Is it
reasonably feasible to change a pack on your own?
3. Will Ford service them at all, or do they refuse to service the
truck unless they can crush it afterwards?
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Coate wrote:
>
> Mason Convey wrote:
> > A few questions regarding the production Ford Ranger EVs...
>
> Yeah, what he said... good questions. I'll add one more:
>
> 4. How "hackable" are they? As in if change battery pack capacity,
> voltage, etc. can a mere mortal alter the charger to match? Ditto for
> the controller, "fuel" gage, etc. Or if add a different charger does the
> controller then get confused?
>
> Or would one of Victor's AC drives bolt right in? :-)
All indications suggest that it will: AC motors for Ford Rangers
made by Ballard (type A312V67 MG) are just Siemens 1PV51xx series
motors, from which front flanges are removed and gear box bolted in.
The motors look identical up to and including cables locations
and fittings (and even casted loops for lifting are the same).
wonder how Ballard got away with copyright issues...
If I were a truck fan and had dead Ranger, I'd remove the
motor and install complete Siemens system. I believe, Gary
Graunke mentioned that there are inexcusable design flaws
in the Inverter - hi voltage components and PCB traces
are in close proximity with low voltage logic circuit.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor,
It could be that Ballard licensed the design from Siemens, which would keep
them legal. If so, your inverter might work with the motor already in the
Ranger. It would be worth a try. Of course, if someone had a motor
problem, your drop-in replacement would be ideal. Were any Rangers actually
sold or only leased? One of the EVA/DC members has one (leased) and Ford
wanted to take it back because of a bad battery. He finally got Ford to
honor his lease and he's still on the road.
Dave Davidson
Laurel, Maryland
From: Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Ranger EVs Still Around?
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:26:54 -0800
Jim Coate wrote:
>
> Mason Convey wrote:
> > A few questions regarding the production Ford Ranger EVs...
>
> Yeah, what he said... good questions. I'll add one more:
>
> 4. How "hackable" are they? As in if change battery pack capacity,
> voltage, etc. can a mere mortal alter the charger to match? Ditto for
> the controller, "fuel" gage, etc. Or if add a different charger does the
> controller then get confused?
>
> Or would one of Victor's AC drives bolt right in? :-)
All indications suggest that it will: AC motors for Ford Rangers
made by Ballard (type A312V67 MG) are just Siemens 1PV51xx series
motors, from which front flanges are removed and gear box bolted in.
The motors look identical up to and including cables locations
and fittings (and even casted loops for lifting are the same).
wonder how Ballard got away with copyright issues...
If I were a truck fan and had dead Ranger, I'd remove the
motor and install complete Siemens system. I believe, Gary
Graunke mentioned that there are inexcusable design flaws
in the Inverter - hi voltage components and PCB traces
are in close proximity with low voltage logic circuit.
Victor
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roderick wrote:
the micro-nano technology that was recently suppressed for fuel injectors.
The invention was a screen so fine and so sharp that it literally split
water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen so that an automobile could run on
pure water.
Don Powell wrote:
You *are* being sarcastic, right? Something capable of physically splitting
molecular bonds, cute.
David Roden wrote:
Something's missing here: the energy input.
Perhaps I'm too constrained by classical physics <g>, but I don't see how
one can break down water into hydrogen and oxygen without an input of energy
at least equal to the energy that will be produced by recombining the H2 and
O2.
Ed Thorpe wrote:
Also, how can a screen be created that's tight enough to split atoms? What
would it be made out of? Has to be constructed of some type of materials,
which consists of atoms itself.
-Ed T
Roger Stockton wrote:
I can only speculate whether Rod has split a gut laughing that so
many of you are treating his post as if he were serious, or if he is
shaking his head in disbelief/disgust. ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
PS: Rod, it was rich, even if not everyone appreciated the humour.
---------------------------------------------
For those of you who don't know Roderick, he has elevated his talents as a
sarcastic smart-ass into a high art form :^D
Even after working with Rod for 11 months I still have a hard time telling
when he is BSing me or not.
Most excellent Rod, you really had em goin'!
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Davidson wrote:
>
> Victor,
>
> It could be that Ballard licensed the design from Siemens, which would keep
> them legal.
That's probably the case
If so, your inverter might work with the motor already in the
> Ranger. It would be worth a try. Of course, if someone had a motor
> problem, your drop-in replacement would be ideal.
This brings a question to current Ranger EV owners about motor
parameters; can one reply on or off list?
> Were any Rangers actually
> sold or only leased?
I have no clue.
Sorry, in previous email I described inverter problems for
Chevy S10 made by US Electricar. Those were sold at one time;
Gary owns one. Ford's inverter is different, and I wander if
it's also Siemens [licensed] one, just like the motor, or
based on it.
Any Ranger EV owner out there to answer?
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Were any Rangers actually sold or only leased?"
Yes. Much like some of the GM S-10E models, some of the Ranger EVs
found their way into the hands of individuals who legitimately own
them. I know of at least two Rangers locally that were privately
owned.
-~-~- mason s. convey -~-~-
website. http://www.1opossum.com
pager.voicemail. 602.422.7996. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
email. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
AOL Messenger. mtnbikeAZ
Yahoo! Messenger. mtnbike_az
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can anyone speak to the question about batteries? Suppose
hypothetically that there was a Ranger available and the batteries
might be bad. What would it cost to get a new pack and where would
said individual look? ;) I suspect turning to Ford would be the MOST
expensive route - even neglecting the labor involved in changing the
modules. Last I checked, the Rangers were using the 8V Panasonic
modules, correct? Are these modules available elsewhere? I hear that
the 6V modules for the EV-1s and S-10Es are easy to come by for about
$5-6k, given that those programs are all but dead. Is it the same for
the Ranger modules, perhaps?
-~-~- mason s. convey -~-~-
website. http://www.1opossum.com
pager.voicemail. 602.422.7996. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
email. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
AOL Messenger. mtnbikeAZ
Yahoo! Messenger. mtnbike_az
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been using a link arm that US electricar used on their AC drive
system (dual PB6 pot box's).
I now am running out of these links and wonder if anyone knows where
they came from.
The link is about 4" long and 1/4" wide.
It has a hole at each end for bolting to the pot box arms. In the center
is a formed section that takes the end of a throttle cable. A hole with
a slot cut in it. Sort of like a brake lever on a bike.
Anyone run into these in another application?
Thanks
Randy
--
Canadian Electric Vehicles Ltd.
PO, Box 616, 1184 Middlegate Rd.
Errington, British Columbia,
Canada, V0R 1V0
Phone: (250) 954-2230
Fax: (250) 954-2235
Website: http://www.canev.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manufactures of: "Might-E Truck"
EV conversion Kits and components
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think there has been some experimenting done with using a solar furnace to
thermally dissociatate water and then some ceramic filters to separate out
some of the hydrogen. I vaguely remember a solar to hydrogen efficiency of
something like 1%. Not exactly the same but similar type of problems.
Andre' B. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If something cannot be defined, it does not exist.
Isaac Newton
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Roy LeMeur
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 3:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Update on Tilley's Delorian
<< snip >>
For those of you who don't know Roderick, he has elevated his talents as a
sarcastic smart-ass into a high art form :^D
Even after working with Rod for 11 months I still have a hard time telling
when he is BSing me or not.
Most excellent Rod, you really had em goin'!
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
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--- Begin Message ---
Isn't this a bit silly.
Why would they bury the item?
They could just patent this technology and everyone will make money on
cars that run on water.
They would make more money from that , and wouldn't have to get dirty
drilling oil.
Same thing with this wonder-device. They can make all kinds of money on
patents..
and still sell oil to places too poor to have these new cars.
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Roderick Wilde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 11:04 AM
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Re: Update on Tilley's Delorian
> >
> >
> >Bill, you are failing to see the big picture here. I've
> >heard that big oil
> >originally funded the Tilley car to prove that electric cars
> >aren't viable.
> >It's quite obvious that now that they think he really is on
> >to something
> >they used a front corporation to offer to buy him out and
> >suppress the
> >technology. That is why they want no further demonstrations.
> >It's just like
> >the micro-nano technology that was recently suppressed for
> >fuel injectors.
> >The invention was a screen so fine and so sharp that it
> >literally split
> >water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen so that an
> >automobile could run on
> >pure water. No one has heard of this technology since. Bruce
> >is a great guy
> >and I feel he has unwittingly and unknowingly become a dupe
> >for the big
> >oilies.
> >
> >Roderick
> >
> >Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
> > Your Online EV Superstore
> > www.evparts.com
> > 1-888-EV Parts (387-2787)
> >Phone: 425-672-7977 Fax: 425-672-7907
> > 18908 Highway 99, Suite B
> > Lynnwood, WA 98036-5218
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 10:37 PM
> >Subject: Re: Update on Tilley's Delorian
> >
> >
> >> At 04:08 AM 12/17/02, you wrote:
> >>
> >> > I recently got an email from Bruce Meland about his visit
> >> >to Tilley's, checking his website I found this writeup with lots
> >> >of pictures that you might enjoy:
> >> >
> >> >http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/delorean_ev2.html
> >> >
> >> > Rumor has it that the figure the foreign company is
> >> >paying for the technology is high 10 figures.
> >>
> >> "Disgruntled former investor" Hmm, this is interesting.
> >>
> >> First:
> >> "A large foreign corporation approached the
> >Tilley Foundation
> >> recently about doing extensive tests to verify the unusual
> >claims of
> >> unusual distances achieved by the Electric DeLorean as
> >well as the self
> >> generating device that powers their shop. "
> >>
> >> Then (in the same article):
> >>
> >> "The foreign corporation asked Carl Tilley and the Tilley
> >> Foundation that no further demonstrations be made."
> >>
> >> Do they want it tested, or not?
> >>
> >> If you were investing in such a device, wouldn't
> >you want lots of
> >> folks to know that it works so you can make lots of money
> >selling them? A
> >> device that is demonstrated to work is worth a lot more
> >than an unproven
> >> device.
> >>
> >> I guess an EV is to an over-unity scam what a
> >folded newspaper is
> >> to a three-card Monty scam.
> >> _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> >> \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> =(___)=
> >> U
> >> Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
> >
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David Dymaxion wrote:
> A little slip there, I think that should be fields in parallel for
> huge torque and in series for field weakening.
No; when you have the fields in series, field current is 3x armature
current; thus you get higher torque per amp, but lower rpm.
Parallel fields (with armatures also in parallel) is the same as 3
separate series motors, all in parallel.
> I'd vote for a fourth controller, powering all the fields separately
> from the armatures. The "control algorithm" wouldn't have to be too
> sophisticated:
Could do that, but as you say, you'd have to watch out for control
issues. Like excessive regen when you don't expect it, and fireballing
the motors from insufficient field current.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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1sclunn wrote:
the album pic is a before? I think a slightly used conversion which has been
tested would be worth more that what you have into it.
Right after it came back from paint.
The conversion was more or less done, that is I had already assembled
it less the 120v wiring (but had added provisions for it) to prove
that everything fit. After it was painted, I installed the wheels and
tyres, and steering wheel to move it around, then shot those photos.
After that I began to put the Pickup back together with plenty of new
parts and no paint on trim or rubber. You see the Rabbit GTI front
air dam in the photos, but not yet the 4 black fender flairs that
complete the package now (not really flairs, about 1/4 inch). The
whole GTI kit is brand new, as are the grill and tail lights (the
tail lights check, the grill warps over 20 years, and why try to make
mismatched old GTI parts look good when they are available new).
Peter wrote:
To who? The problem with selling a conversion is that most folks expect
to spend less on a conversion than the parts cost.
Most conversions are not up to the "drive and forget" stage and need
tinkering. Most folks willing to tinker will either build their own or
look for something cheap that they can afford.
Most custom or even stock restoration vehicles sell for somewhat less
than the cost of the job. Its a fact of life, but true because people
like me enjoy the work as a hobby. We sell to try our hand at another
vehicle. I'm not in a great hurry to start another vehicle, I will do
some work on the place inside, outside, and in the garage. But I
*know* already I will be building another car - its fun.
As far as "drive and forget", I hope my Pickup proves to be as close
as it comes. There is always room for an owners personal touches, but
I think its pretty basic maintenance. Not of the ICE type of course;
No stinky oil - just distilled water. No fuel filters, just check the
motor brushes once and awhile. No tune-ups, just check the batteries
and connections out. Of course, I can't help the regular vehicle
part, things like brake inspections or washing it will be like any
other vehicle. But I don't expect to worry about the drivetrain. My
Buggy drivetrain hasn't needed any work.
Neon
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Yes, the PFC-20 is looking better all the time. Though probably not for an
onboard.
The BatMods look interesting, but are limited to 48V. So it would require
splitting the 160V pack into segments.
Hi Gordon,
An on-board charger for a motorcycle is a challenge, even if it's a big
bike. Throw in the special requirements of charging Evercels, and you
have a very tall order.
The advantage of the PFC 20 is that Manzanita Micro (and friends) is
developing a system specifically for Evercels right now. You're not
likely to find a charger that gives you less headaches. Contact Rich
Rudman for details.
The only other option I can think of would rely on a level of design
capability that is way beyond my reach (OK, that doesn't take much).
Vicor makes the BatMod specifically for charging batteries.
http://www.vicr.com/products/datasheets/ds_batmod.pdf
They're small, light, powerful for their size, can be master/slaved for
higher output, and Vicor has a number of application notes that tell you
how to make your own smart charger. As you would expect, they aren't
cheap - around $160 per module?
Chris
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Is anyone here a used car dealer licensed in their state? If so, how
hard was it to become one? Have you reaped benefits from it? Tips on
going to auctions? Thanks
-Sam
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Dave,
Perhaps we can line up our TEVans for a race, that would be interesting.
Hopefully they don't equip any turtles with Evercells and enter them in
our race class! Regardless of the poor performance of my TEVan,
mine is very usefull for hauling the kids around and LOTS of groceries.
I've also used it to haul 500 lbs of mulch and topsoil. I don't have a
pickup
truck so I use my TEVan as one.
I might add that I have more space for some big bass sub woofers and other
sound equipment than a Datsun. The DC/DC can handle 120 amps max, so
I think this would be plenty of 13.8V for a kick as# sound system.
Unfortunately the wife would not agree to expenditures for this!
Fortunately the TEVan has plenty of performance for my wife's driving
style.
She may be a little upset if I start using her laundry detergent for a
Millenium cell
to increase range. No worries there, I'm still waiting for a Millenium
range extender.
Rod
Dave Davidson wrote:
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: GhiaMonster Electrical Subsystem...
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:36:03 -0800 (PST)
......
I think the only sepex NEDRA racer
has been a Dodge TEV? It did win its class :) .
......
That would be me! Most OEMs are AC and most conversions are series.
There are a few sepex conversions, but the NEDRA web site doesn't say
which type each record holder is or who has raced and lost. The TEVan
was definitely not built for speed, just as a utility vehicle. My
record for the quarter mile was 27.525 seconds at 50.44 mph. Still, I
don't usually hold up traffic. It just doesn't move out that fast.
Made me laugh at the recent discussion where some folks thought a 0 to
60 time of 16 seconds was too slow. ;) I think my 0 to 30 time is
fairly decent, but haven't measured it.
Dave Davidson
Laurel, Maryland (member EVA/DC)
1993 Dodge TEVan
NEDRA SP/C record holder
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--- Begin Message ---
They probably just bought them and rebadged them, or had the design
tweaked and rebadged them. If you look closely at some of their other
traction products you might notice similarities to other EV parts
available from other manufacturers.
Seth
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> Jim Coate wrote:
> >
> > Mason Convey wrote:
> > > A few questions regarding the production Ford Ranger EVs...
> >
> > Yeah, what he said... good questions. I'll add one more:
> >
> > 4. How "hackable" are they? As in if change battery pack capacity,
> > voltage, etc. can a mere mortal alter the charger to match? Ditto for
> > the controller, "fuel" gage, etc. Or if add a different charger does the
> > controller then get confused?
> >
> > Or would one of Victor's AC drives bolt right in? :-)
>
> All indications suggest that it will: AC motors for Ford Rangers
> made by Ballard (type A312V67 MG) are just Siemens 1PV51xx series
> motors, from which front flanges are removed and gear box bolted in.
>
> The motors look identical up to and including cables locations
> and fittings (and even casted loops for lifting are the same).
> wonder how Ballard got away with copyright issues...
>
> If I were a truck fan and had dead Ranger, I'd remove the
> motor and install complete Siemens system. I believe, Gary
> Graunke mentioned that there are inexcusable design flaws
> in the Inverter - hi voltage components and PCB traces
> are in close proximity with low voltage logic circuit.
>
> Victor
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
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I had good luck and mileage with Michelin (MXV energy?) in 195/65R15 on
my VW. When I changed tires to another brand I lost 3 mpg (out of 30).
HTH
Seth
Marvin Campbell wrote:
>
> What kind of tires are people using? My Goodyear guy says they don't make
> the Invicta anymore? Or maybe he just can't find them?
> The EVcort needs 195/60R 15.
> Any ideas?
> J. Marvin Campbell
> Culver City, CA
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
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